hey Ksman, had follow up with endo who has diagnosed me with idiopathic secondary, and am starting treatment next week. Not sure if i should though, have a few questions i would appreciate your thoughts on. HRT Doctors Australia (Perth) - Testosterone Replacement - Forums - T Nation
Cheers
Responded to your questions
Responded to question. Thanks.
Someone posted this concerning how hair loss drugs can destroy some guys’ hormones permanently. This has more impact than my warnings.
About my AI use:
When I started AI six years ago, I had E2=37 while my T was in the 900’s. That E2=37 make be feel bad, libido and mood problems, brain fog, easily startled, hated loud noises, intolerant and easily irritated. I was a bitch! With 1mg/week anastrozole, I life was great and nothing ruffled my feathers. I was a stud!
Last year or so, my labs started to come back with lower and lower E2. My dose had not changed. Over time I had increased E2 to match increased T doses and that had been keeping me near the E2=22 target.
As my E2 levels started to drop, my doc told me that he sometimes sees guys not needed AI anymore after having used it for a ?long? time. That did not make any sense and I dismissed the idea.
I had a E2=<7 from Labcorp and dismissed that a a lab failure because we have seen that several times.
Then we switched from my getting labs on my own from Labcorp [via LEF] to Quest via doc. So we get <15 from quest and now we have no idea what is going on. I had cut AI dose in half and was below 15 and really did not learn much from that lab report.
I have stopped AI for now. Definitely putting my head in a different space, but I an not feeling bad. I do feel more connected to my emotions and less what I had termed emotionally dry and analytical.
The change in my aromatase situation also occurred during the time frame where I slipped into iodine deficiency, then did 50mg iodine per day for two weeks. That recovered low body temps and had an amazing effect on QOL. Also, earlier, my TSH increased with my near death surgery/infection 2.5 years ago. That event shifted my thyroid function some how and the result was TSH=0.98–>1.60. My body temperatures were good after that, I was monitoring body temps every day for quite a while, doing self delivered IV antibiotics. TSH has dropped some since then.
I, and others, have pointed out that when there is a lot of peripheral T–>E2, the amount of AI required to “correct serum levels” might have the effect of lowering T–>E2 inside the brain. The implication is that this might have negative effects. However, we know that serum E2 does get into the brain, so that waters down any such arguments concerning reduced T–>E2 inside the brain. The T–>E2 inside the brain does create E2 for local consumption. So this is a muddy situation on which to draw conclusions. If we had inter-cranial fluid E2 levels before and during AI… any volunteers?
My AI needs had increased and I found that taking Rx Arimidex was delivering the same E2 levels as with RC anastrozole. RC potency did not seem to be the issue.
So reasons not known. My E2 levels dropped on an unchanging AI dose. I cut dose in half, but switch from Labcorp–>Quest really lost an opportunity to see what was going on.
So still lots to learn. The concept that one’s AI needs would decrease was really hard to accept after getting married to importance of AI. AI had changed my life for the better.
Aromatase activity is not controlled, it is open loop. This implies that the change is not from a change in a hormone feedback look system and thus would seem to be a result of changes at a cellular level.
K Sman,
Could you take a look at my thread again?
Thanks,
SMG
Ksman
i updated my tread can you take a look
KSman,
i would like to thank you as well for all of your help and input for everyone over the years here on TN, i’ve been on TRT now for 1 1/2 years. I started following your protocol, about 6 mos after starting TRT. It has worked very well. Your knowledge base on the issues we discuss here is second to none. Thanks again for all your help…
Thanks! So how limited are TRT resources in Montana?
ksman, thanks for your help. I was wonder if you could take a look at my last lab?
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/need_advice_on_treatment_routes
I’ve changed labs a couple of times. I finally have a lab that does e2 scaling that I can understand - none of this less than nonsense. They do online tracking with graphing etc. and keep your records for you as we’ll. I do keep a spreadsheet with all my numbers from the times when I didn’t use these guys. I just hit the 25ng holy grail for e2, we’ll have to see what happens In a few months…
[quote]KSman wrote:
About my AI use:
When I started AI six years ago, I had E2=37 while my T was in the 900’s. That E2=37 make be feel bad, libido and mood problems, brain fog, easily startled, hated loud noises, intolerant and easily irritated. I was a bitch! With 1mg/week anastrozole, I life was great and nothing ruffled my feathers. I was a stud!
Last year or so, my labs started to come back with lower and lower E2. My dose had not changed. Over time I had increased E2 to match increased T doses and that had been keeping me near the E2=22 target.
As my E2 levels started to drop, my doc told me that he sometimes sees guys not needed AI anymore after having used it for a ?long? time. That did not make any sense and I dismissed the idea.
I had a E2=<7 from Labcorp and dismissed that a a lab failure because we have seen that several times.
Then we switched from my getting labs on my own from Labcorp [via LEF] to Quest via doc. So we get <15 from quest and now we have no idea what is going on. I had cut AI dose in half and was below 15 and really did not learn much from that lab report.
I have stopped AI for now. Definitely putting my head in a different space, but I an not feeling bad. I do feel more connected to my emotions and less what I had termed emotionally dry and analytical.
The change in my aromatase situation also occurred during the time frame where I slipped into iodine deficiency, then did 50mg iodine per day for two weeks. That recovered low body temps and had an amazing effect on QOL. Also, earlier, my TSH increased with my near death surgery/infection 2.5 years ago. That event shifted my thyroid function some how and the result was TSH=0.98–>1.60. My body temperatures were good after that, I was monitoring body temps every day for quite a while, doing self delivered IV antibiotics. TSH has dropped some since then.
I, and others, have pointed out that when there is a lot of peripheral T–>E2, the amount of AI required to “correct serum levels” might have the effect of lowering T–>E2 inside the brain. The implication is that this might have negative effects. However, we know that serum E2 does get into the brain, so that waters down any such arguments concerning reduced T–>E2 inside the brain. The T–>E2 inside the brain does create E2 for local consumption. So this is a muddy situation on which to draw conclusions. If we had inter-cranial fluid E2 levels before and during AI… any volunteers?
My AI needs had increased and I found that taking Rx Arimidex was delivering the same E2 levels as with RC anastrozole. RC potency did not seem to be the issue.
So reasons not known. My E2 levels dropped on an unchanging AI dose. I cut dose in half, but switch from Labcorp–>Quest really lost an opportunity to see what was going on.
So still lots to learn. The concept that one’s AI needs would decrease was really hard to accept after getting married to importance of AI. AI had changed my life for the better.
Aromatase activity is not controlled, it is open loop. This implies that the change is not from a change in a hormone feedback look system and thus would seem to be a result of changes at a cellular level.
[/quote]
I am sort of shocked that there are so many guys who do not have an oral fever thermometer in the house. I always assumed that everyone would have such things.
Do you have recommendations for RC anastrozole?
Hi KSman,
I had a question and was would like your opinion. Thanks.
Google ‘research chemical anastrozole’
Listing sources on many forums should not occur, for good reasons that are not apparent.
KSMan, I just wanted to unlurk for a minute to thank you so much for your contributions.
I weighed 466 a year and a half ago when I started training at 50 years old. I’m down about 120 lbs., but the weight loss was slow and the muscle gain was even slower. I’m disabled and in a wheelchair, which doesn’t help matters. I had four separate surgeries for infection in the scrotum, and discovered afterward that a lifetime of low testosterone became testicular failure. You would have had to triple my initial test results just to get to the bottom number of the ranges.
My GP wanted me to see a specialist, so in the interim he put me on Testim, but refused to do an estriadol test because “I don’t order tests I don’t know what to do with.” The first endocrinologist I saw at the UW clearly did not know what she was doing.
I found this forum, read a majority of the posts and learned enough to know I didn’t know a thing and needed to get educated. Nobody else was going to get me where I wanted to be.
Sure enough the first week of Testim was awesome, but it soon petered out and I felt worse than before.
I finally found a urologist at the UW who, judging from the papers he’d written, showed some signs that he knew what was going on with male hormone modulation. I read everything a second time, wrote up some questions, and went to see the guy loaded for bear. I asked for an AI, I even asked for HCG. Sure enough, he prescribed anastrazole, 1 mg/day. My E2 score was only 34 out of 42, so I’ve been taking half a dose every other day. He won’t prescribe HCG because “that’s for fertility only.” But the point is: I know better. I was told what the real situation was and where to go look for more specific information.
He put me on Fortesta instead of Testim, the only difference between them seems to be the insane price. If this doesn’t work (and it’s not so far), we’re going to the test cyp injections. It’s not perfect yet, but I know what to ask, what to ask FOR, and when to insist. And I owe this positive outlook to your guidance here and your grasp of all the details of this condition.
So…you have my gratitude, sir. Thanks for all your contributions. They’ve positively changed my life.
Please start a thread with the above info.
If your testes are toast, then hCG will not do much. We need your labs with ranges. If LH/FSH are low, hCG has potential. If LH/FSH are mid or high, hCG probably will not do much.
In the advice for new guys sticky, there is a focus on finding causes instead of just treating symptoms.
Your weight and ability to loose weight is greatly influenced by T, T:E, thyroid and cortisol status. So you may not be playing with a full deck in the weight loss game. And nutrients and gut health also influence metabolism. In your case, I would also check IGF-1 levels to see if you are GH deficient.
?UW?
Checking E2 is very important. All the more when you have a lot of fat where T–[aromatase]–>E2.
Post all of your latest labs with ranges.
1mg/day anastrozole, another idiot doctor! See the protocol for injections sticky.
KSman, could you tell me the name of that pharmacy you get HCG from? I remember looking into it once and there prices were really good even after shipping. Thanks
KSman - Have you thought about a career switch from engineering to health/anti-aging?
Would definitely appreciate a re-review on my post.
KSman, could you take a look at my new blood test results after being on Liquidex at .25mg a week. Thanks.