T Nation

KSMan, Did My E2 Crash?


#1

KS Man Please Help. I’m new to the Forums and did not know how to start a thread
you would respond to or how to message you directly if thats possible.

I have been on Testosterone injections now for a couple of months with good test numbers - most recently ~ 800. It became obvious that my estradiol was too high and 2 separate labs have borne that out - first was 110 and most recent 2nd was 140. After begging my endo to prescribe Arimidex he finally did. I started it at 0.5mg last wed with my testosterone shot (I split my shots - 2x/wk)- for two days I was fine, no problems but Fri am I started with butt muscle and back pain that comes and goes in intensity but is very bad for the most part - I cannot stand for very long with radiating intense pain. It still continues to this day possibly less often and less severe but still debilitating.

Did I take to much, is my E2 crashed? or is it just a side effect of Arimidex?

Assuming i fully recover should I decrease the dose? by how much? stop and never take again, switch to Aromasin?

Please help - this has been very very uncomfortable.

P.S. I just had an estradiol blood test yesterday (Sunday) before my test shot.

Thanks


Arimidex Dosing/Side Effects and Usage
Will 500mg of Test C Every 3wks Shut Down Natural Production?
Subq vs IM Test Inj
#2

Sounds like back ache. Pain running down one or both legs? Sciatic nerve involvement. Anyone who can rub your lower back and gluts to see what muscles are tight.

We never see what you have described as a low E2 issue.

You only had one dose on board, so your anastrozole levels would be lower than you would get after some sustained dosing a week later.

Please post labs in list format with ranges. I do not know if you labs were pg/ml or pmol/L!

Where are you injecting T? subq or IM?

What training and physical work had you been doing that may be a factor? Particularly adventuresome sexual activity?


#3

Hi KS Man - E2 results were pg/ml. I have not done anything stressful nor any accidents. I’ve never experienced anything like this before. The only unusual thing was that I gave blood 1 unit prior to taking my first dose of Arimidex. My Hct runs high on trt.

ESTRADIOL, SERUM 144 pg/mL <=47 pg/mL. Resulted: 05/07/2017 11:17 AM

ESTRADIOL, SERUM 108 pg/mL <=47 pg/mL Resulted: 04/12/2017 11:04 PM

Component
TESTOSTERONE, ADULT MALE 880 ng/dL 300 - 890 ng/dL

I inject Test Cypionate 75 mg twice per week about 3.5 days apart intramuscularly.

Apparently joint and muscle pain are common potential side effects yet I haven heard much from guys on here about it being a problem.

I am 46 years old


#4

There is no reason to expect those issues with:
ESTRADIOL, SERUM 34 pg/mL <=47 pg/mL. Resulted: 05/014/2017

People who are not on TRT also get those lower back issues that do then involve the gluts and legs. And it happens suddenly.


#5

Hi KS Man - I never heard back from you after my reply to your reply. as a review - I started Arimidex 0.5mg last Wednesday 5/10 - felt great for 2 days then got horrible muscle or joint pain in my glutes. I have not taken any more yet as I’m gradually recovering almost back to normal I think. I got E2 labs done Sunday 5/14. E2 results were pg/ml. I have not done anything stressful nor any accidents. I’ve never experienced anything like this before. The only unusual thing was that I gave blood 1 unit prior to taking my first dose of Arimidex. My Hct runs high on trt. My labs as below.

I did notice significant improvement in morning wood thurs 5/11 the day after I took arimidex but then completely gone by Fri 5/12 when bone or muscle pain started.

ESTRADIOL, SERUM 34 pg/mL <=47 pg/mL. Resulted: 05/014/2017

ESTRADIOL, SERUM 144 pg/mL <=47 pg/mL. Resulted: 05/07/2017

ESTRADIOL, SERUM 108 pg/mL <=47 pg/mL Resulted: 04/12/2017 11:04 PM

Component
TESTOSTERONE, ADULT MALE 880 ng/dL 300 - 890 ng/dL

I inject Test Cypionate 75 mg twice per week about 3.5 days apart intramuscularly. I have felt powerful positive effects from arimidex on mood and sexually so I would like to try to figure out if I can still make use of it but maybe with some way to mitigate i.e. Lower dose or other strategies.

Apparently joint and muscle pain are common potential side effects yet I haven heard much from guys on here about it being a problem.
I am 46 years old


#6

I responded there two days ago.

I have gone there and updated.

E2=34pg/ml is not low and would cause high E2 problems for most guys.
Dose would need about a week to reach steady state. You might need more.


#7

Can only tell you that I have been taking Arimidex 1mg DAILY for already 4 months without noticing any side effect.

Bodies react different to things, you know that, but just for you to have one more answer.

I also have high E2, even taking Arimidex daily, ´though I lowered with it sensibly. Since one month combining other things to see if I can have the E2 complety fine next time. Next month is my new lab check and I´ll see how I´m doing (I´m very fine with my Testosterone).

Good luck!


#8

Hi - had a scary reaction to arimidex to help me better control my e2. I think I’m done with Arimidex and prob AI’s in general. I already split my IM inj twice per week. I’m wondering if splitting dose further IM to 3x per week would further help lower peaks and hence conversion to e2?

Or

I have also heard Subq inj 3xper week is supposed to dramatically reduce conversion to e2 especially those with low or low normal shbg which I have.

Does anyone have any idea if these are legitimate
Strategies?

Evidence or opionion which would be better?

Below are my first labs before starting trt.
I haven’t had these checked again since per MD

Thanks
D

SEX HORMONE BIND GLOBULIN 17 nmol/L 11 - 80 nmol/L

TESTOST: FREE CALC, ADULT MALE 45 pg/mL 47 - 244 pg/mL

TESTOST: % FREE, ADULT MALE 2.3 % 1.6 - 2.9 %

TESTOSTERONE, ADULT MALE 192 ng/dL 300 - 890 ng/dL

Collected:
10/27/2016 4:39 PM
Resulted:
10/29/2016 2:54 PM


#9

You have to stop creating new threads for your case!

Please consolidate to one thread and stay there. Treating this forum as a chat room is not going to provide a good outcome.

Read the stickies below “I have also heard Subq inj 3xper week is supposed to”. Read and know.

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.


#10

It’s better to reply to one ongoing thread instead of starting multiple similar threads for connected issues.


#11

Thank you Chris!


#12

I need to point out that that dose would be damaging in almost every situation. We do see that prescribed sometimes, with disastrous results, buy doctors who have have zero knowledge who use female cancer treatment doses intended for E2–>zero when male TRT needs a small dose to modulate E2.

“without noticing any side effect” raises a few different possibilities.


#13

With 150 mg T per week at 75mg x 2, we would expect that many guys would need ~ 1.5mg/week anastrozole, later adjusted to get near 22pg/ml.

Injecting twice a week subq will provide nicely steady T levels and issue of T peaks driving high RBC and T–>E2 should be minimized.

Do not inject IM, inject subq [aka SQ, SC].
Pinch up skin over upper leg, inject into end of fold with needle parallel to muscle layers. Use #29 1/2" 0.5ml insulin syringes.

At 46YO, fertility is not an issue. But shrinking testes pulled up tight might be and some get 24x7 dull aches in their testes. 250iu hCG SC EOD avoids that and many find that hCG improves mood.

In terms of quality of life, do not bypass request to check oral body temps to eval thyroid function.


#14

Thank you so much KSMan - I apologize for mistakes posting. I have been a little frantic trying to figure out what to do about high e2. My endo
Is clueless.

Hcg is interesting add on - I have noticed Test shrinkage and my wife and I already have twins
With no further plans for kids.

My question is - won’t hcg drive up e2 significantly further?

2nd question - I live in Portland Oregon and given above clueless endo - how do I find a competent trt MD?

Sorry if these have been covered before

Thanks
David


#15

Thank you, KSman for your answer!

I really appreciate your comment and insight. Can only tell you what´s apparent to me, so far, no side effect shows up on the lab tests too (after 3 months like that, I also feel fine).

I asked the doctor when he prescribed that ammount (knowing how little is normally recommended in this forum) but he was very “effusive” in his answer.

As I already said I don¨t have knowledge on this.

I do know he has been doing this for over 20 years (as far as I know),

What are, in your oppinion, the possible side effects of this dosis? I will carefully look for it!

Thanks again!


#16

Very low E2 affects energy, mood, libido and sexual function. With a sane dose and some E2 labs and adjustment, you may feel very different. This should be in your own thread with more details about you. Not to hijack this thread…


#17

Thanks for your answer! I´ll be carefully monitoring all that!

Definetely not intending to hijack other peoples thread, I already posted what I mentioned here 7 days ago (and also in March): My Experience with TRT and HCG. Seeking Advise, Please!

Best regards!


#18

I have already directed you to a sticky for that, see above.

hCG only increases E2 when dose is high overstimulating LH receptors, however a very few guys have some issues with 250iu SC EOD.