T Nation

KS MAN and Others, My Update!


I am 39 years old. I lift heavy 3-6 times a week. Decent stats for an old man very close to 300 bench ( havent maxed in 3 months last max was 270 with a bad shoulder and now am at personal records with reps in 5X5) 330 squat (sucks I know) and 420 deadlift. I am tired and beat after good workouts. Sex life is good and do wake up with morning wood except on the mornings were my wife and had relations the night before.

I am just baffeled that my free T is low. The doctor said he doesnt deal with that stuff (meaning HRT) and refered me to a endo doctor. Shit I want to be on the high side of T not the low side. No damn wonder my results have been slow comming.

free t 7.4 (normal is 9-30)
total t 286 (normal is 270-1000)
estridiol 15 (they said this was within normal)
tsh 1.42
PSA 1.21
blood sugar 96 (morning test)
alt 18
cortisol 20.6 (5-25 normal)

Maybe this will be good if I can get on TRT. If not I guess I will be forced to self admin. This whole thing really surprises me. I had (stupidly) thought that heavy squats, deads and other work would keep my levels high. Doesnt the heavy work increase the test production?

How should I approach this doctor? I guess I will tell him straight out I dont want to be on the low end I want to be on the high end.


First question would be, why was your doctor checking your test levels? It doesn't seem like you were having any of the usual symptoms of low test. I'm actually very surprised you were having morning erections at 39 with low test. But...this is actually a good thing (with the only bad part being not finding out sooner). There is some research saying that heavy weight training increases test levels, which makes me wonder what yours would be without the exercise.

Don't get too upset about the years you probably had low test and didn't know it. I gained a solid 50 lbs and a ton of strength and had no clue mine was even low until last year when I started having some symptoms of depression. Since then, I went on TRT, and life is just that much better. Mood has improved, I feel stronger, and I have more confidence or bravado or whatever you want to call it. And I'm actually saving money since I know my levels are high now and I'm not having to spend a ton of cash on test boosters and supplements that may or may not work.

Your low free test result doesn't guarantee that you'll be put on TRT, since some docs like to try other things or run a slew of tests to try and find the cause of the problem. Other docs just prescribe it right away since it's the easiest solution to the problem. If you think TRT (which is going to be lifelong) is right for you, just tell your doctor. If he/she wants to do something other than TRT and doesn't have a great reason for it, find another endo. There's nothing wrong with wanting your levels to be above average for once.


I decided to get my blood tested for insurance reasons. I have a $2500 deductable and I used all of that on a MRI. So know everything is free beyond the $2500. I also am going to do a treatment with lamisyl for bad toe nails (I know gross). I wanted to know my liver numbers and get all the rest of the blood work done.


i told mine the truth...and im 24 my test levels were at 600...he put me on hcg which jumped to 800....this was a year ago...friday i did a blood test again"i am currently on a cycle..." in one shot of test my levels jumped from 800 to 1600 in one shot... he blasted me and said your going to fu


I read your other post. Quick question.... why on earth are you giving advice to anyone about anything remotely related to anything that has anything to do with PED of any kind. Just curious.


is it advice or experience...if he wants his levels higher he can get them higher using hcg...right? and im sorry i try helping... its funny you use another thread to call me out and not pm me...


The question is how are you feeling.
Are you feeling tired and run down, low libido, losing muscle mass, unable to gain muscle mas
Is the quality of your life been less then years before
Did you just get over a cold or have a severe trama in your life 3-6 months prior?
These are the questions that you need to ask your self.
Should you have concern yes especially for those levels and what it potential do down the road.
Have you have your estrogen checked?
Are you currently over weight ?

Where are you located
For a person to be at 600 TT
I would have to see where shbg,thyroid,e2 adrenals where before making that decision.
Most of the time when a person has good levels Dr needs to look at other options before implementing HCG ..


excellent questions...


E2=15 is normal? So is E2=2. A decent level. If you do TRT that will increase.

FT varies with time of day for guys who are natural. Time of day for the blood draw is important info. When guys go on injected T, FT does not change with time of day. With transdermals, FT spikes then drops with applications.

TT tells a good story about your T output. To better understand what is going on you should have LH and FSH tested.

MRI of your head? Pituitary looked normal?


I had a MRI on my shoulder. I had my blood drawn in the morning after a 12hr fast. I would have thought my T to be highest in the morning? I am baffled that my TT is so low.

What is a LH and FSH test?


Read and follow links from here:


Thanks KSman!


KS just an update*** Today I had my appointment with the ENDO. She took alot of time with me and asked alot of questions. Since my blood test I found out my Dad (65 years old) has had low test since he was my age. He had trt for a couple months and gave it up since he said he felt no different. She wants a ultrasound on my testicles and (lh and fsh) blood test also. I learned a great deal today. She perscribed me 1 injection a month of test c 200mg. That is alot lower than what I expected, looking at my blood test results. A nurse showed my how to self inject. I put my one month worth into my quad. 0 pain!!! I was nervious, but now seems like a piece of cake.

I did question the Doc about fluctuating levels with only 1 shot a month of test C.

I also was alarmed that she wants me to retest my blood 3 months from now, a full four weeks after my third injection. I was thinking since I would be shut down my (testosterone) blood levels would be even worse than the first time?

What is your thoughts on the once a month deal????


Also they will only sell me test c in 1ml at a time. They charged me 38.87 for 1ml. WOW I thought that was alot! The androgel was $130 a month so I went with the self injections.


KS I bought the book you recommend to others on testosterone. It answered some questions but brings up alot more. Why are doctors so in the dark about trt therapy and this book was written 10 years ago?


10cc's at Sam's Club is $57.00, and $75.00 at Costco, so you are paying way too much. It really sucks your doctor doesn't know what the hell she's doing. Have you read the paperwork that comes inside the box with the Test? I'm guessing your doc hasn't either. It says, "... 200 to 400 milligrams every two weeks...".

Make your doctor read the paperwork that comes with the drug you are being given and enlighten her.
One shot a month will make you feel as bad if not worse than you do now. Within three or so days of the shot you may start to feel better and continue to fell pretty good for another four or five days. Then you start to feel like crap for the next twenty six day until the next shot kicks in. Understand now?

Yes, your levels will be worse than when you started most likely, and you will feel even worse because of the drop from a little natural T, to no T at all.

Go to www.roidcalc.com and put a 100 in the top of the "Depo Testosterone" column and hit "calculate" to see how much of the one shot is left in 30 days, then add the next 100 at day 31 and recalculate again.

Bottom line is you need a new doctor...


What can she be thinking my test levels will show? Also she didnt like the first blood test I had and made me do another. The second test had me in the mid normal range. She said had she known she would not have started me on the test. Now she says we will go by feel.


Because they stopped learning and obviously do not really care about what they are really doing.

That book is negative about injections because injecting every 2 or 4 weeks did not work [duh!]. The need to inject more often is really obvious, unless you see the need to have injections done in your office to rack up the cash flow. Optimal cash flow is not optimal medical care.

Fight to self inject. You really need a better doc and note that endos and urologists typically are losers with TRT. Note that you really need T+AI+hCG.

You are now in malpractice land.


Your going on TRT should have been symptom driven with labs supporting the diagnosis. She has things backwards. Now she indicates that she might be symptom driven.


She has allowed me to self inject but I am only allowed to get 200mg/1cc a month. Yah I noticed that the book was negative about injections, now I understand why. She kept bringing up wife beating with to much test. What is she thinking that 400mg a month will turn me into a nut?