T Nation

Kroc Rows

Good Day All

I have been training for a couple of years, but only recently started training properly by taking in the correct advice from good people (esp on T Nation).

I want to ask about Kroc Rows.
I understand the concept of picking the heaviest weight you can find and then rowing, but what happens if your max (at least mine at this point) is a 110 lbs dumbbell row.
How do I then take the 143 lb dumbbell (the biggest in my gym) and row (for Kroc Rows) - I can’t row that dumbbell right now, maybe in a few months with good progression, but how then do Kroc Rows work in this instance.

Do I just pick it and row and do my best and might end up not rowing the weight at all?
Do I use my bodyweight to row it considering I’m only a 190 lb?

Any help because I like rowing and would want to try another variation.

Regards

You use the heaviest weight you can handle. Seriously, isn’t that just common sense? Wendler can easily deadlift 600, what makes you think you should be using the same dumbbell weight he uses?

[quote]Yude wrote:
I want to ask about Kroc Rows.
I understand the concept of picking the heaviest weight you can find and then rowing[/quote]
… for high reps. 20 or more. This is crucial and a huge part of what makes “Kroc rows” effective.

You’re currently using a 110 dumbbell for rows, but for how many reps? And are you using this weight for “Kroc rows” or for more strict form dumbbell rows?

If you can’t row it for one, then you can’t row it. Period.

This is exactly why I’m not a fan of beginners, or generally less-experienced lifters, trying to do Kroc rows. You should stick with “normal” dumbbell rows, get strong on those (work up to using heavy weight for moderate to high reps with controlled form), and maybe consider “Kroc Rows” later on down the road.

At what point should you up the weight after you get X amount of reps with a DB? 25? 35? 50 reps?

[quote]chobbs wrote:
At what point should you up the weight after you get X amount of reps with a DB? 25? 35? 50 reps?[/quote]
This is another one of the problems with “Kroc rows” being used by people who aren’t Matt Kroc.

Not to single you out at all but, as a reminder, they were originally done because Kroc worked his way up to using the heaviest dumbbell in the gym. Since there was no more weight, he kept working for rep PRs. After doing that for a while, that’s when he started getting into the ridiculous improvised dumbbells - 220, 250, 300.

They’re not just “kinda heavy rows for a bunch of reps with loose form.” They began as “doing rows with the biggest motherfucking 'bell you can find because nothing else is a challenge.”

So what I’m saying is, if someone’s doing rows with the biggest dumbbell in the gym for 30 or 40 reps per side, they should toss up a video and bask in the adulation of their peers before worrying about the next step.

  1. Once you can get 15, go heavier. Once you get to the heaviest dumbbell you have, just keep increasing the reps. I assume that 20 would also work. Just pick a number and progress with it.

In my opinion, Kroc rows are just sort of the natural progression for dumbbell rows. You have to keep increasing things. I mean, if you can do high reps, why would you do low reps? If you can do them heavy, why would you do them light? There isn’t some magical point where you stop doing dumbbell rows and start doing Kroc rows. Just do dumbbell rows and try to progress them. Kroc rows are where you end up.

[quote]Silyak wrote:
15. Once you can get 15, go heavier. Once you get to the heaviest dumbbell you have, just keep increasing the reps. I assume that 20 would also work. Just pick a number and progress with it.[/quote]
Or, as Kroc himself said in the article linked above, “I recommend shooting for at least 20 reps and not increasing the weight until you can get at least 25 reps with each arm.”

@Chris Colucci - Thanks the for comment. I think now I have a better understanding of the purpose and the correct time to incorporate kroc rows into your training.
I use the 110 lb DB for a max of 8 reps per side - this is the most I’ve been able to do with good form.

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
You use the heaviest weight you can handle. Seriously, isn’t that just common sense? Wendler can easily deadlift 600, what makes you think you should be using the same dumbbell weight he uses?[/quote]

This is what I needed clarity on because most articles do not mention the heaviest weight you can handle - not your comment about common sense…
Also - this shows I’m a beginner, not a seasoned pro like yourself.