Which do you do? Why not the other?
Both. Last time I did kroc rows I worked up to 15x185 (not the strictest form) and did them first in the workout. On my other back/bicep day I often do strict db rows with the heaviest dbs in my gym, the 90s, last in the workout. 10 reps with a 2 second squeeze at the top.
Both are nice in their own way. I like krocs the most though. Big weights are fun.
Before I answer, can I just ask you, nyh (and only nyh, please fellas)... what is a Kroc row and what is it supposed to do?
A Kroc row is taking a DB which you can't lift for 1 rep and repping it for 20 times with really bad form.
It is however, said to improve your grip strength and your penis size.
So, do you do them?
I think you have confused what the actual movement is, and the poor imitations you see other people doing.
Do you mind elaborating?
I do strict DB rows with a focus on the stretch of my lat at the bottom of the rep and squeeze at the top of the contraction. My goal is to widen my back.
Does this look like really bad form?
Kroc himself on kroc rows: http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/building_a_big_freaky_back
Kroc rows are ordinary DB rows, performed my Matt Kroc. That's it.
they are different movements relating to form and have different goals
I was kinda afraid you meant something along those lines, so I'll just re-emphasize what eeu said. Kroc rows have become very misinterpreted and have devolved into an excuse to use too much weight for too many reps with too poor technique.
I don't currently do dumbbell rows, but last time I did, I did them with strict form most of the time, occasionally using some body english at the end of the set to increase the workload.
Thanks for all the replies. I'm beginning to see the differences.
So the focus of Kroc rows are simply to get as much weight up in a straight line for as many reps possible, whereas for strict DB rows, the path of the DB is diagonal and done with a mind muscle connection so to speak?
Reason why I'm asking is that I came across this video of Andy Bolton talking about assistance exercises for the powerlifts:
Around 4:15 he talks about how people are using too much momentum and weight and advocates going lighter and pulling in a diagonal fashion to hit the lats more. And given that he's pulled over 1000 pounds I would assume he would know what he's talking about.
If these are purely a matter of personal preference then yeah, the point of this thread still stands, which was to find out if Kroc rows or strict DB rows were better for your deadlifts and back in general.
Or am I still missing something somewhere?
Nevertheless I will probably add Kroc rows into my routine as well. Thanks for all the input.
I wouldn't categorize Kroc rows as an assistance lift. it's more like to take the place of barbell rows as a main back lift especially if you're having issues with grip strength and deadlift lockout.
I'm sorry for this but I would say BOTH are good, for different reasons. As Austin said, strong positive contraction at the back is good for muscle. Maybe an idea would be to do a few sets of strict rows, get a pump/ MindMuscleConnection and then pick up a DB say double the weight and rep out, in the same workout?
Not gonna call them kroc rows, but 'loose-form rows' are good for chucking around crazy weights, I am 180lbs lean and can do 80kgs loose rows for high reps 15-25 depending on how i'm feeling. Obviously a fair bit of momentum, good for generating momentum from hips/back, and developing grip (if you don't use straps) - hence the relevance for powerlifts.
1 thing to be wary of is too much lower-back involvement from a rounded-back starting point: keep arched back and should be fine, as with any heavy movement.
All the best
Well I am paraphrasing here, but I think matt kroc said something along the lines that he started doing
high rep dbrows when he wherent able to add weight anymore( because there wherent heavy enough dbs ), to keep progressing. So as far as I understand it is dbrow with a high rep top set for crazy strong individuals.
I guess us regular mortals better keep doing dbrows with strict form.
Thats just my 2cents.
Kroc rows? Kroc of shit...Or so I thought! Hey guys, I'm new to T-Nation but I have 5 years experience lifting heavy shit and I can tell you Kroc rows have devloped my lats and rhomboids like nothing else (except d-bol).
Okay thanks guys I'll probably just chuck in a final set of 20 reps after regular rows with something heavy as a finisher
How can you take a weight you can barely do 1 rep with, and do 20 reps?
Surely he said that as some sort of joke
D-bol my friend!!