While Kroc Rows are already famous for raising your deadlift, your bench, your grip strength, adding beef to your upper and middle back…
I have yet to see anyone mention the fact that they’re in-frickin’-credibly great as an oblique exercise: they’ll train (anti)rotation like nobody’s business (when you have 3 points of support - i.e. one hand on a bench, they’re probably THE best and hardest ever), and, come to think of it, in a most natural and “functional” way (somehow, I think that obliques had to resist rotation when pulling and pushing and running, not when planking).
If you don’t use a bench for support, the loading is assymetrical and the torsional moment is equal to weight * distance from weight to spine,
and you also get some erector loading (but, probably, 1/3 or less of your max DL)
If you use a bench for support, the loading is assymetrical and the torsional moment (which must be resisted by the obliques) is equal to weight * distance between arms (double the moment compared to doing it unsupported)
and you also get a huge load on your rectus abdominis.
I almost strained an oblique today doing them with the hand on a bench (did a 5 RM…yeah, not a “Kroc row”, I know)…
Somehow I don’t imagine anyone using such weights during a Paloff press…
[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
If you don’t use a bench for support, the loading is assymetrical and the torsional moment is equal to weight * distance from weight to spine,
and you also get some erector loading (but, probably, 1/3 or less of your max DL)
If you use a bench for support, the loading is assymetrical and the torsional moment (which must be resisted by the obliques) is equal to weight * distance between arms (double the moment compared to doing it unsupported)
and you also get a huge load on your rectus abdominis.
I almost strained an oblique today doing them with the hand on a bench (did a 5 RM…yeah, not a “Kroc row”, I know)…
Somehow I don’t imagine anyone using such weights during a Paloff press…[/quote]
A little confused, so does it work the abs more when you stand on your 2 feet with an arm on the bench, or one foot on the ground, knee and arm on the bench?
[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
If you don’t use a bench for support, the loading is assymetrical and the torsional moment is equal to weight * distance from weight to spine,
and you also get some erector loading (but, probably, 1/3 or less of your max DL)
If you use a bench for support, the loading is assymetrical and the torsional moment (which must be resisted by the obliques) is equal to weight * distance between arms (double the moment compared to doing it unsupported)
and you also get a huge load on your rectus abdominis.
I almost strained an oblique today doing them with the hand on a bench (did a 5 RM…yeah, not a “Kroc row”, I know)…
Somehow I don’t imagine anyone using such weights during a Paloff press…[/quote]
[quote]Chris87 wrote:
A little confused, so does it work the abs more when you stand on your 2 feet with an arm on the bench, or one foot on the ground, knee and arm on the bench?[/quote]
[quote]Chris87 wrote:
A little confused, so does it work the abs more when you stand on your 2 feet with an arm on the bench, or one foot on the ground, knee and arm on the bench?[/quote]
When done on your 2 feet (unsupported), they seem to tax the “core” (obliques, erectors) the least, because you are free to move a little and can absorb the shock through more joints, and because the torsional moment is lower. (provided you use a weight you can actually row, not just one arm DL)
When done with your and arm on the bench (knee a little behind body, so that more weight is on the arm), they put tremendous stress on your abs and obliques (this can be good or bad), and, it seems, they also put a lot of pressure on your lower back.
It seems that a hanging leg raise, HLR with a twist, or a front lever, will put MUCH less stress on your abs and obliques than a DB Row with knee and hand on bench.
[quote]Chris87 wrote:
A little confused, so does it work the abs more when you stand on your 2 feet with an arm on the bench, or one foot on the ground, knee and arm on the bench?[/quote]
When done on your 2 feet (unsupported), they seem to tax the “core” (obliques, erectors) the least, because you are free to move a little and can absorb the shock through more joints, and because the torsional moment is lower. (provided you use a weight you can actually row, not just one arm DL)
When done with your and arm on the bench (knee a little behind body, so that more weight is on the arm), they put tremendous stress on your abs and obliques (this can be good or bad), and, it seems, they also put a lot of pressure on your lower back.
It seems that a hanging leg raise, HLR with a twist, or a front lever, will put MUCH less stress on your abs and obliques than a DB Row with knee and hand on bench.[/quote]
thanks for the clarification, this is the way ive always done it, but then again I just started to doing kroc rows, previously I just did around 10 reps, so this shall be an added bonus