T Nation

Krav Maga as Self Defence?


#1

not talking about the gay stuff that people get trained around the world
more toword the real thing that we teach in the israeli army?


#2

What makes you think the "gay stuff" that people train in is any different than the stuff they learn as a base in the Israeli army?

And what's your question?


#3

This isnt a question as much as you saying everything but Krav Maga is gay. Cant agree with that but good for you.


#4

Who is "we?"


#5

I think he was talking about watered down forms of krav maga around the world being gay.


#6

eli b is right i didnt say any thing but krav maga is gay!!
i was asking for ur opinion on the real krav maga and not the stuff u can go to learn in the studio next to ur house.

and by "we" i ment us israelis who to go through with learning it in the army


#7

So you've learned Krav Maga in the Israeli Army?


#8

I would say krav is good for general self defense. Alot of striking, knees, elbows, groin strikes etc. An empahsis on deal with the threat violently and get the F out. The only thing i disliked was training the various defenses against clubs, knives, guns, etc... Im gonna guess that stuff doesnt do u much good unlesss u drill it over and over again so its 2nd nature.


#9

The original Krav maga and kapap are war styles, not self-defense. Self-defense isn't "solving the encounter as violently as possible". That will get you in jail. Yes, the street does have rules, they're called the law.

The civilian version of krav maga is so watered down it's basic muay thai with some dirty moves, and teaching street mentality instead of ring mentality(bursting for example). That last part is very useful, but extremely dependant on who's teaching.

I've tried civilian krav which was really poor imo, and in my bodyguard training had "law enforcement krav" which is a bit dirtier, but the teacher was really, really good. He even admitted that krav alone is probably not enough to be at your best due to the lack of proper sparring, and recommended to "supplement" with another full contact style, for instance mma, boxing or thai boxing.


#10

Where's that dead horse pic.....hmmm


#11

I trained with the IKMF in London (just moved back to the States last month), and they seemed to be pretty authentic. The classes never lapsed into "Cardio Krav", and the instructors were fantastic. I think IKMF is in Australia, you might want to give it a try.


#12

I can agree with this. It really depends on the teacehr of the art... if you've got some yuppie who passed a bunch of courses, it might be garbage, but if you've got a guy who really knows what he's doing and teaches it like combatives, it could be very good.

And as far as self-defense- Krav is not self defense, it's a fighting art. Self defense encompasses much, much more than how to punch or kick. I would be dissapointed if I went to a Krav class and they didn't teach awareness, avoidance, de-escalation, and how real crime happens.


#13

Australians get all the good versions of martial arts. They have several RoK Marine TKD instructors there too, all of whom I would trust ahead of any WTF or Olympic style instructor.


#14

Institutionally I am usually underwhelmed with military martial arts, same problems of no continuity of instruction, lack of competency amongst mid level instructors, and individual initiative on either side of the student/coach relationship seem to plague all of them on one level or another.

Of course though if you find a hardcore krav gym I would hit it up, we have a dude whos a blackbelt in it in my battalion and its fairly sweet.


#15

I've said before that I thought every military martial arts program thus far is a piece of shit, and iirc someone tried to give me shit about it, but I'll still hold that opinion.

However, everything I've seen looks better than the program the Australian Army is currently pushing. Goddamn it's some horrible shit. I'm glad most diggers opt to sit it out with the mind that they'd rather "grab an e-tool and whack the cunt".


#16

@Kapulsky: If so, then you should know how it works, if you train it.


#17

wow. i can't believe you just said that the street has rules.


#18

The street does have rules. They're called laws. And they're enforced steadily.


#19

i'm not talking force above and beyond (such as someone calling you a bitch so you shoot them) but if someone is beating your ass (or the threat is imminent) then you do not need to be careful in how you respond. the whole point of mental preparedness is to avoid the stunned response of a civilized person who might just stand there in disbelief "is he really hitting me?" but instead to immediately, and with complete violent force, respond

ie

"Anthony Ervin was a career criminal. He was arrested eight times on assorted robbery, weapons, and assault charges between 1987 and 1996. On October 8, 1996, he acosted Courtney Beswick, a blind man who must have seemed like an easy target. After Ervinâ??s demands for money were repeatedly refused, he attacked Beswick. Beswick, a long time practitioner of martial arts, threw his assailant over his shoulder, onto the pavement. The fall broke Ervinâ??s neck, and he subsequently died.

Having survived this terrifying ordeal, Beswick still faced the possibility of criminal and civil charges. In this case, however, the police and estate of the deceased decided not to file charges against Beswick, since he clearly acted in self-defense."

http://www.ittendojo.org/articles/general-4.htm


#20

One case does not the law make.

Blacking out, as they call it, and killing someone who assaults you will more than likely end up with you in jail.

Not thinking and realizing the level of violence you're encountering, and responding accordingly, is a good way to land yourself in jail