T Nation

Krav Maga and Additional Training

Was looking to hear any feedback from folks doing Krav Maga 1-3 times a week, who also incorporate lifting/training into their schedule. I currently do this on average twice a week and I’ve found it’s easy to become a jack of all trades and master of none when you have so many things going on. Any feedback appreciated.

I still think FightinIrish pretty much nailed it with his schedule:

  • MA training 2-3x/week
  • lifting (the bare basics) 2x/week
    -conditioning when you find the time
  • sneak mobility and technique drills into every day by performing mini sessions

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
I still think FightinIrish pretty much nailed it with his schedule:

  • MA training 2-3x/week
  • lifting (the bare basics) 2x/week
    -conditioning when you find the time
  • sneak mobility and technique drills into every day by performing mini sessions[/quote]

Thanks man. I appreciate that.

This plan does work well for me, being a regular guy with a full-time job and all. If I was competitive, I would be doing FAR more conditioning, but I’m not, so I’m a little lax with that.

I would recommend additional training of boxing or Muay Thai, which you build up in frequency until you have to cancel your Krav Maga training.

Haha, I’m joking of course… kinda.

In seriousness, Irish’s plan works well, because your ratio of MA to strength training sessions should always be in favour of your respective MA. Skill first. Because you can still get very strong doing basic lifts 2 - 3 days a week.

Ask yourself: Do you want to smash fools, or leave a pretty corpse? That is the primary question of any Martial Artist.

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
I would recommend additional training of boxing or Muay Thai, which you build up in frequency until you have to cancel your Krav Maga training.

Haha, I’m joking of course… kinda.
[/quote]

x2 on quitting Krav. I intensely dislike it.

[quote]
Ask yourself: Do you want to smash fools, or leave a pretty corpse? That is the primary question of any Martial Artist.[/quote]

EXCELLENT quote

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
I would recommend additional training of boxing or Muay Thai, which you build up in frequency until you have to cancel your Krav Maga training.

Haha, I’m joking of course… kinda.
[/quote]

x2 on quitting Krav. I intensely dislike it.

I dislike celery, but that doesn’t mean it’s not good for you!

[quote]
Ask yourself: Do you want to smash fools, or leave a pretty corpse? That is the primary question of any Martial Artist.[/quote]

EXCELLENT quote[/quote]

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
I would recommend additional training of boxing or Muay Thai, which you build up in frequency until you have to cancel your Krav Maga training.

Haha, I’m joking of course… kinda.

In seriousness, Irish’s plan works well, because your ratio of MA to strength training sessions should always be in favour of your respective MA. Skill first. Because you can still get very strong doing basic lifts 2 - 3 days a week.

I’m reading a lot of Martin Rooney at the moment and that is his general philosophy, and who can argue with that guy???
Ask yourself: Do you want to smash fools, or leave a pretty corpse? That is the primary question of any Martial Artist.[/quote]

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
I dislike celery, but that doesn’t mean it’s not good for you!

[/quote]

I have issues with the way they teach … everything. But if your teacher is good, maybe the place is an anomaly. We used to have a woman here who taught Krav and she knew her shit. But I don’t find that to be common among Krav schools.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
I dislike celery, but that doesn’t mean it’s not good for you!

[/quote]

I have issues with the way they teach … everything. But if your teacher is good, maybe the place is an anomaly. We used to have a woman here who taught Krav and she knew her shit. But I don’t find that to be common among Krav schools.[/quote]

Fair enough. A good instructor is certainly key. The guy training us near London, England, is eastern European, with a variety of background disciplines, as well as being a general hard bastard! A very good instructor. His boss, who runs the whole show, is involved in fight choreography, e.g. The Debt, which probably explains why the membership fees are so steep!

Regarding the sessions themselves, they last 90 mins and some weeks they are very (what I term) ‘cardio’ focussed. This can mean rounds of burpees, push-ups, etc, or fight drills using pads, focus mitts, etc. Sometimes the session will see little cardio and the majority of the time is spent doing the same techniques repeatedly. It’s amazed me how fatigued I’ve felt following 30 mins or so of escaping bear hugs, choke holds, etc, despite the low intensity. I don’t mind admitting I’ve sometimes limped out of these sessions so recovery is key. That said, Krav Maga is not hugely physically challenging. It’s only when you move up to multiple sesions a week, coupled with additional gym work, it becomes an issue.

Look, in the ‘tactical community’ for lack of a better descriptor, there are hundreds of trainers jumping on the advanced Israeli combat tactics band wagon and they are teaching shite. They are displaying very poor firearm handling skills, they are demonstrating dangerous drills (that require or cause trainees to muzzle sweep each other during drills) and they are recalling sometimes dubious combat experience “lineage”. But even if they didn’t pull any of that utterly unsafe stuff, and were super safe in every respect, they are still teaching generally superfluous and stupid tactics. Combat barrel rolling, duck walk move and fire, shooting from moving vehicles.

Unfortunately, do you know where I see that a lot elsewhere? Krav Maga.

Your trainer should be teaching you to punch well, kick well and always defend yourself. If he is doing that and you are actually sparring at almost full contact and able to utilise these taught skills, then he is worth training under. Otherwise, at the very least you will get quite conditioned.

Back to the OP, stick to programs that balance 60 - 70% 1RM with medium to high volume reps. You want to be doing compound movements and do them explosively. And when you experience an injury and absolutely have to train, the weights should take a back seat.

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
I would recommend additional training of boxing or Muay Thai, which you build up in frequency until you have to cancel your Krav Maga training.

Haha, I’m joking of course… kinda.

In seriousness, Irish’s plan works well, because your ratio of MA to strength training sessions should always be in favour of your respective MA. Skill first. Because you can still get very strong doing basic lifts 2 - 3 days a week.

Ask yourself: Do you want to smash fools, or leave a pretty corpse? That is the primary question of any Martial Artist.[/quote]

I would recommend keeping that right hand up to protect the jaw when throwing that right roundhouse kick. I promise you that if I saw you doing that when we sparred,I would 45° step outside that kick,immediately step in and I would knock you out. No offense.

[quote]confusion wrote:

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
I would recommend additional training of boxing or Muay Thai, which you build up in frequency until you have to cancel your Krav Maga training.

Haha, I’m joking of course… kinda.

In seriousness, Irish’s plan works well, because your ratio of MA to strength training sessions should always be in favour of your respective MA. Skill first. Because you can still get very strong doing basic lifts 2 - 3 days a week.

Ask yourself: Do you want to smash fools, or leave a pretty corpse? That is the primary question of any Martial Artist.[/quote]

I would recommend keeping that right hand up to protect the jaw when throwing that right roundhouse kick. I promise you that if I saw you doing that when we sparred,I would 45�° step outside that kick,immediately step in and I would knock you out. No offense.
[/quote]

I like keeping the right hand up as well (I actually like actually throwing the right hand to post/blind/disguise the kick or using it to trap with even better), but it also depends on how you set it up. If you angle out to your left or right (so your head is not between your shoulders) before or during your kick, and roll the right shoulder it is safe to drop the right hand and you will not land that right hand. You are also assuming it is being thrown with a predictable rhythm that will allow you to time it with that counter, which a smart fighter will make difficult for you to do, and that you are fast enough to pull off that counter, which you may or may not be.

In short, your advise about keeping the right hand up isn’t wrong (though there are numerous forms of “right”, one of which is to pendulum the hand down like Pidgeon is doing in that pic), but unless you actually were standing in front of that kick and pulled off that counter, then I’d be careful of suggesting that you could. Critiquing a technique from a snapshot in time is ok to do (I’m sure Pidgeon watches plenty of film of himself fighting and critiques his own performance and uses them to analyze his skills so he can see where he can continue to improve), but it can lack the contextual information that may have made the technique successful or unsuccessful in real time.

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
Look, in the ‘tactical community’ for lack of a better descriptor, there are hundreds of trainers jumping on the advanced Israeli combat tactics band wagon and they are teaching shite. They are displaying very poor firearm handling skills, they are demonstrating dangerous drills (that require or cause trainees to muzzle sweep each other during drills) and they are recalling sometimes dubious combat experience “lineage”. But even if they didn’t pull any of that utterly unsafe stuff, and were super safe in every respect, they are still teaching generally superfluous and stupid tactics. Combat barrel rolling, duck walk move and fire, shooting from moving vehicles.

Unfortunately, do you know where I see that a lot elsewhere? Krav Maga.

Your trainer should be teaching you to punch well, kick well and always defend yourself. If he is doing that and you are actually sparring at almost full contact and able to utilise these taught skills, then he is worth training under. Otherwise, at the very least you will get quite conditioned.

Back to the OP, stick to programs that balance 60 - 70% 1RM with medium to high volume reps. You want to be doing compound movements and do them explosively. And when you experience an injury and absolutely have to train, the weights should take a back seat. [/quote]

Totally agree.

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

Unfortunately, do you know where I see that a lot elsewhere? Krav Maga.

Your trainer should be teaching you to punch well, kick well and always defend yourself. If he is doing that and you are actually sparring at almost full contact and able to utilise these taught skills, then he is worth training under. Otherwise, at the very least you will get quite conditioned.

Back to the OP, stick to programs that balance 60 - 70% 1RM with medium to high volume reps. You want to be doing compound movements and do them explosively. And when you experience an injury and absolutely have to train, the weights should take a back seat. [/quote]

I take the point, but in my experience of Krav Maga we have not embarked on what I would term ‘Hollywood moves’. Most of it is practical. You also need to approach it with a healthy degree of realism. Some defences will not work in some scenarios. A good example is a standard defence against a front stab (where you try and rotate to the side while deflecting the incoming arm in the process). Anyone who’s ever held a knife before in anger should never be disarmed this way. But someone who’s high on drink/drugs could be. It is what it is.

Otherwise, it is practical - punches, kicks, knees, block defences, etc, and covers the basics. For my money, it is a bit light on full contact sparring but I’m happy to accept technique comes first so I’ll bide my time.

I think you make a valid point on the training range. That sound like a solid common sense approach. Cheers for that.

[quote]confusion wrote:

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
I would recommend additional training of boxing or Muay Thai, which you build up in frequency until you have to cancel your Krav Maga training.

Haha, I’m joking of course… kinda.

In seriousness, Irish’s plan works well, because your ratio of MA to strength training sessions should always be in favour of your respective MA. Skill first. Because you can still get very strong doing basic lifts 2 - 3 days a week.

Ask yourself: Do you want to smash fools, or leave a pretty corpse? That is the primary question of any Martial Artist.[/quote]

I would recommend keeping that right hand up to protect the jaw when throwing that right roundhouse kick. I promise you that if I saw you doing that when we sparred,I would 45�° step outside that kick,immediately step in and I would knock you out. No offense.
[/quote]

Hmm… Not sure if constructive criticism or Butthurt about Krav Maga…

But if your advice is directed at my avatar:

  1. In that picture I am executing as textbook a Muay Thai high kick as I can after a long day of training.

  2. It was for a series of promotional photos/videos being made for Tiger Muay Thai. They seemed happy with the kick.

  3. The trainer holding the pads is Kru Yod. I’ll defer to his words at the time, “you kick good”.

  4. I was doing practicing Muay Thai in Thailand. That’s how you kick in Thailand.

  5. I’m sure you’re a great fighter. But the only thing I ever promise before a fight is that I’ll be there. Beyond that… well, shit happens.

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

[quote]confusion wrote:

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
I would recommend additional training of boxing or Muay Thai, which you build up in frequency until you have to cancel your Krav Maga training.

Haha, I’m joking of course… kinda.

In seriousness, Irish’s plan works well, because your ratio of MA to strength training sessions should always be in favour of your respective MA. Skill first. Because you can still get very strong doing basic lifts 2 - 3 days a week.

Ask yourself: Do you want to smash fools, or leave a pretty corpse? That is the primary question of any Martial Artist.[/quote]

I would recommend keeping that right hand up to protect the jaw when throwing that right roundhouse kick. I promise you that if I saw you doing that when we sparred,I would 45�?�° step outside that kick,immediately step in and I would knock you out. No offense.
[/quote]

Hmm… Not sure if constructive criticism or Butthurt about Krav Maga…

But if your advice is directed at my avatar:

  1. In that picture I am executing as textbook a Muay Thai high kick as I can after a long day of training.

  2. It was for a series of promotional photos/videos being made for Tiger Muay Thai. They seemed happy with the kick.

  3. The trainer holding the pads is Kru Yod. I’ll defer to his words at the time, “you kick good”.

  4. I was doing practicing Muay Thai in Thailand. That’s how you kick in Thailand.

  5. I’m sure you’re a great fighter. But the only thing I ever promise before a fight is that I’ll be there. Beyond that… well, shit happens.
    [/quote]

I miss you when you’re not around here man. I knew at point 2 that it was going to be a good post.

[quote]confusion wrote:

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
I would recommend additional training of boxing or Muay Thai, which you build up in frequency until you have to cancel your Krav Maga training.

Haha, I’m joking of course… kinda.

In seriousness, Irish’s plan works well, because your ratio of MA to strength training sessions should always be in favour of your respective MA. Skill first. Because you can still get very strong doing basic lifts 2 - 3 days a week.

Ask yourself: Do you want to smash fools, or leave a pretty corpse? That is the primary question of any Martial Artist.[/quote]

I would recommend keeping that right hand up to protect the jaw when throwing that right roundhouse kick. I promise you that if I saw you doing that when we sparred,I would 45�° step outside that kick,immediately step in and I would knock you out. No offense.
[/quote]

Hahahah who fucking says this?

[quote]confusion wrote:
I would recommend keeping that right hand up to protect the jaw when throwing that right roundhouse kick. I promise you that if I saw you doing that when we sparred,I would 45�° step outside that kick,immediately step in and I would knock you out. No offense.
[/quote]

What would you do if his hand was up? You’ve already indicated that he would be unable to land the kick on you, and that you are fast enough to step around the kick and land a punch. At that point, how much difference does his hand being up really make? Maybe you would have to stun and pummel him into unconsciousness instead of just cleanly knocking him out?

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]confusion wrote:
I would recommend keeping that right hand up to protect the jaw when throwing that right roundhouse kick. I promise you that if I saw you doing that when we sparred,I would 45�?�° step outside that kick,immediately step in and I would knock you out. No offense.
[/quote]

What would you do if his hand was up? You’ve already indicated that he would be unable to land the kick on you, and that you are fast enough to step around the kick and land a punch. At that point, how much difference does his hand being up really make? Maybe you would have to stun and pummel him into unconsciousness instead of just cleanly knocking him out?[/quote]

“If do right, no can defend”.

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

“If do right, no can defend”.
[/quote]

FTW!