T Nation

Korean War 2? Me Thinks Not.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/23/south-north-korea-un-cheonan

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/asia/South-Korean-President-North-Korea-Will-Pay-the-Price-for-Sinking-Southern-Ship-94710899.html

South Korea too pussy…
If you put on your bullshit glasses. They basically are a) doing nothing in response, b) not declaring eaction act of war or terrorism, c) banning fishing boats from coming in their water, d) not closing kia and hyundai’s factories in North Korea.

I wonder if you would feel more macho when you had a completely insane neighbor that could obliterate your capital with artillery in mere minutes.

[quote]orion wrote:
I wonder if you would feel more macho when you had a completely insane neighbor that could obliterate your capital with artillery in mere minutes.

[/quote]
You have to ask yourself tho.
How long do you have to wait for that to happen.
If I threatened you everyday with a gun, and then covertly shot your dog, killed your cat, poisoned your fish over past 3 years. I think at some point, you’d just say, ‘fuck it, let’s get this over with.’

I think after 50 years, ‘waiting them out’ isn’t really an option anymore.

The first Korean War has to end first hardy har har har

Actually - NK has been actively engaged in espionage and attacks on SK for some time - the one thing missing is a direct attack on the civilian population - were such an incident to occur SK is under no delusions about its ongoing war with NK and we would see a very strong reaction. SK has not forgotten the war, although we in the US seem to have.

The thing is, nobody knows for sure what happens if the “kind leader” dies or gets really sick or too senile.

So why go into a needless war?

Try to view the soldiers dying as heroes, sacrificing their lives so there can be peace.
It’s not even that far-fetched.

What is happening in Korea is the same thing that happened in Germany? The country is split and families are on both sides of the fence. The South is hopeing that what happened in Germany will happen in Korea.

On a side note, it is amazing how one man can have that much power. At least the US has enough Naval and air support if needed. The South would have to be the majority of the land forces, but we would have air and sea superiority.

[quote]orion wrote:
I wonder if you would feel more macho when you had a completely insane neighbor that could obliterate your capital with artillery in mere minutes.

[/quote]

Rebuilding Seoul which is within artillery range of the DMZ into their largest city was a huge mistake. Since they had to start from nothing anyways they should have built a new city at the southern end of the penninsula so it would be as far away from the north as possible.

Until they have laser weaponry that can take out artillery shells they are going to have to watch their step with the north and hope for it to collapse.

It’s hard to see what’s going to happen. But my prediction is this. SK and us will put pressure. NK will make some small concessions and life will go on.

[quote]pat wrote:
It’s hard to see what’s going to happen. But my prediction is this. SK and us will put pressure. NK will make some small concessions and life will go on.[/quote]

I hope you are right, but I sure am sick of the Media Talking Heads and Political Leaders (aka Hillary Clinton, etc.) continuing to rattle the sabres.

If the aristocrats and elites in the government want a war so bad (ANOTHER ONE) I have a great idea. Let’s put them and their loved ones in combat gear, give them a rifle, a couple of MRE’s and have them show all of us how it’s done. Let’s put them on the front lines while thousands of North Koreans storm it.

If that were to happen they just might change their tone a bit.

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
I wonder if you would feel more macho when you had a completely insane neighbor that could obliterate your capital with artillery in mere minutes.

[/quote]

Rebuilding Seoul which is within artillery range of the DMZ into their largest city was a huge mistake. Since they had to start from nothing anyways they should have built a new city at the southern end of the penninsula so it would be as far away from the north as possible.

Until they have laser weaponry that can take out artillery shells they are going to have to watch their step with the north and hope for it to collapse.[/quote]

I don’t think it matters at this point. NK has enough nukes to obliterate every major city in SK. They also have the delivery systems to do so. NK would get obliterated at the same time, but if “Dear Leader” doesn’t care, he’ll take the entire Korean peninsula down with him.

It probably won’t come to that though. Either us or the Chinese (or some combination) will force a de-escalation of the situation.

(This image is of the Korean peninsula at night from orbit. Three cheers for the Great Leader!)

Maybe I’m being stupid as usual, but NK used to be one of the darlings of the Left since it is, in its own words, the purest Socialist state in existence. I’ll buy that. In reality, the Kims have turned it into the longest-running and largest-scale hostage drama in history.

Here is what NK is probably doing. We offer them money to quit trying to make the Bomb. This is taking too long because we keep asking them to do things like live up to their previous promises. So how do they get rewarded? They go sink a boat, launch a missile over Japan or shoot down some aircraft then make noises about going to war. If we tell them to go to Hell (like we should) we are painted in the press as being the aggressor, so we eventually relent and give them something as accommodation to show we are working in good faith. In essence, they have a perfect racket going with absolutely no downside to them and rewards for rattling their sabres whenever Kim’s supply of bourbon and western movies runs low.

Seriously now, South Korea should wake up to the fact that even if Kim leaves tomorrow NK is such a basket case that it will probably destroy their entire economy. They don’t want it and should publicly state that, i.e., repudiate the very notion of re-unification as being impossible. Germany absorbed its eastern half – arguably the best run Communist economy – and it damn near bankrupted them. NK is far, far worse and has almost no working industries.

I think we should take them at their word. We should quote their own press releases back to them that proclaim the huge successes of Communism. This means we cut off all aid and tell China NK is their problem. We set a list of conditions (end the war, liberalize the economy and support basic human rights) and only when they have met them do we even pretend like they exist. If people in the US or abroad complain to us about our rough treatment, only quote NK propaganda about how wonderful it is there. It will be a cold day in Hell before they admit to having totally fubared the country.

if history is any guide, the only ways to get rid of the Kim dynasty (which is what it is) is either with a very bloody war or by taking them off life support. Now the army knows that the only reliable source of revenue is extortion from abroad and once Kim can’t deliver that, why keep him? I think Romania’s revolution where the army finally declared war on the secret police is what ought to happen in NK. We should wash our hands of them and stay completely out of it.

And as always I might just be full of shit…

– jj

[quote]Charlemagne wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
It’s hard to see what’s going to happen. But my prediction is this. SK and us will put pressure. NK will make some small concessions and life will go on.[/quote]

I hope you are right, but I sure am sick of the Media Talking Heads and Political Leaders (aka Hillary Clinton, etc.) continuing to rattle the sabres.

If the aristocrats and elites in the government want a war so bad (ANOTHER ONE) I have a great idea. Let’s put them and their loved ones in combat gear, give them a rifle, a couple of MRE’s and have them show all of us how it’s done. Let’s put them on the front lines while thousands of North Koreans storm it.

If that were to happen they just might change their tone a bit.[/quote]

Every time NK needs or wants something, they threaten war. When they get what they want they back off. It’s how they go shopping. Instead of using their own money, they rob a liquor store…

[quote]Charlemagne wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
It’s hard to see what’s going to happen. But my prediction is this. SK and us will put pressure. NK will make some small concessions and life will go on.[/quote]

I hope you are right, but I sure am sick of the Media Talking Heads and Political Leaders (aka Hillary Clinton, etc.) continuing to rattle the sabres.

If the aristocrats and elites in the government want a war so bad (ANOTHER ONE) I have a great idea. Let’s put them and their loved ones in combat gear, give them a rifle, a couple of MRE’s and have them show all of us how it’s done. Let’s put them on the front lines while thousands of North Koreans storm it.

If that were to happen they just might change their tone a bit.[/quote]

So you are saying the Hillary &c. are the warmongers and that they are just plain awful effete snobs who should finally get their just desserts? If the North Koreans invade then who is picking the fight? Are you really so sold on the idea of peace that you really have no place in this for justified defense?

Nobody likes war – contrary to popular belief. It is easy to make denunciations and with some creative marketing you might even get them to stick. In which case you will be prolonging this whole mess in the name of morality, though the North Koreans will probably not see it that way once they can get rid of the Kims. And yes, the Kim dynasty is every bit as bad as the Nazis: Hell with their scarily racist take on Korean purity they are a dead ringer for Adolph and friends. For instance political prisoners and dissenters are arrested – with their families – and used to test poison gas as well as munitions. The perpetrators of this are the sorts of people you claim are the hapless victims here.

And as always, I might just be full of shit…

– jj

JJ - great comments as always.

I am concerned by the mobilization of NK forces and the breaking of ties with SK. it could be nothing more than sabre rattling, but with the sinking of the SK destroyer and the change in leadership coming due to Kim’s health and age - this might be a whole lot more. Power plays within a dictatorship are always problematic and displaying a firm hand to the generals in support of his son’s succession might just result in a renewal of open conflict.

My main concern is that we have to understand that NK is a puppet of China. He may be sabre rattling but his orders come from China. Are the Chinese testing the mettle of our Commander in Chief? Also maybe six months ago, where not some top military Generals in China itching for war due to our sale of 6 Billion dollars in arms to Taiwan. Along with us placing 2 US carriers there.

Im a little concerned, Ive been to the DMZ and it is no joke. It is heavily guarded and no non sense business. It aint fun being in SK when tensions are high.

As a side note, they say there are more endangered species in the DMZ than any where else. Just what I heard. And I shit you not, on the way back from a firing range, I saw a big ole Black Panther just sitting there like King Mufasa from the Lion King.

[quote]jj-dude wrote:

[quote]Charlemagne wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
It’s hard to see what’s going to happen. But my prediction is this. SK and us will put pressure. NK will make some small concessions and life will go on.[/quote]

I hope you are right, but I sure am sick of the Media Talking Heads and Political Leaders (aka Hillary Clinton, etc.) continuing to rattle the sabres.

If the aristocrats and elites in the government want a war so bad (ANOTHER ONE) I have a great idea. Let’s put them and their loved ones in combat gear, give them a rifle, a couple of MRE’s and have them show all of us how it’s done. Let’s put them on the front lines while thousands of North Koreans storm it.

If that were to happen they just might change their tone a bit.[/quote]

So you are saying the Hillary &c. are the warmongers and that they are just plain awful effete snobs who should finally get their just desserts? If the North Koreans invade then who is picking the fight? Are you really so sold on the idea of peace that you really have no place in this for justified defense?

Nobody likes war – contrary to popular belief. It is easy to make denunciations and with some creative marketing you might even get them to stick. In which case you will be prolonging this whole mess in the name of morality, though the North Koreans will probably not see it that way once they can get rid of the Kims. And yes, the Kim dynasty is every bit as bad as the Nazis: Hell with their scarily racist take on Korean purity they are a dead ringer for Adolph and friends. For instance political prisoners and dissenters are arrested – with their families – and used to test poison gas as well as munitions. The perpetrators of this are the sorts of people you claim are the hapless victims here.

And as always, I might just be full of shit…

– jj[/quote]

Yeah the elites and political class in this country should and absolutely deserve to get their just desserts. And with the coming economic depression they just might. They are completely out of touch with reality and the suffering of real everyday Americans. Think Marie Antoinette’s famous line “LET THEM EAT CAKE!” and you just might get an idea of how these people think.

And unlike many people who like to wave their dicks around and say we should invade this country and do this and do that, all in the name of freedom of course, I have walked the walk as a Marine grunt with two combat tours under my belt. So when I hear these shitbags in the media with their war propaganda it makes me sick to think more of my brothers are being put in harms way. And for what? What is being solved. Is America any safer?

As far as another war goes…why does America always have to get involved? Yeah, the North Koreans aren’t very nice people, yeah the Kim’s are psychos, yeah they are torturing people. But isn’t this happening in other parts of the world as well. Is America getting involved in another Korean War going to solve anything? Just like the first one did right?
If North Korea attacks South Korea, that should be their business and settled between those two countries. Jesus Christ, when is enough enough. Does anybody out there see that we are literally spending our way into oblivion on all these pointless wars that solve nothing, while our economy continues to crumble into dust.

We spend millions of dollars on a Predator Drone that most of the time doesn’t even kill suspected militants. Those millions of dollars could have been used as tax breaks for Americans.

And you are damn wrong about nobody liking war. Bullshit. War is a racket, the biggest most destructive racket there is. And somebody is always getting rich off of it.

SK lost track of all of the NK submarines . . . great . . . Here’s to hoping that China will reign NK in again and not take advantage of the situation to press the Taiwan issue . . .