Kobe's 81

great accomplishment. can’t argue with 81 points. it’s a great feat.

however,it was against one of the worst, most inexperienced teams in the league though. just adding some perspective (without trying to take away the credit where its due).

And comparing Kobe to Jordan is ludicrous IMO. Jordan WAS the bulls. he had a decent supporting cast that complemented him well…but he made each and every one of them look much better than they were. plus he had unmatched desire, leadership skills, intimidation factor, clutch ability, and was a true student of the game. he was basically a player coach during the bulls title years, jackson didn’t really have to do all that much when you boil it all down. Kobe may match up in some ways, but he does not have the intagibles Jordan possessed…and he had Shaq.

I must say that there is something eerily similiar between Jordan and Kobe. I root against the Lakers whenever they’re on tv, and nothing scares me more than when Kobe has in late-game/last-possession scenario… like Game 2 of the 2004 NBA Finals. He certainly has all the tools to be a Jordan-caliber superstar. The question is whether or not he chooses to grow up and utilize them.

“According to an NBA poll directed at general managers throughout the league before the 2005?06 season, Bryant was overwhelmingly voted as the player they would choose to take the last shot during the crucial moments of basketball games.”

Note: Bryant has made 21 game-winning shots so far in his career. In comparison, Jordan made 28 throughout his career.

And while I agree that Shaq was a big part of the Lakers (and Kobe) winning their 3 titles, I think people are being unfair to Kobe by expecting him to lead them to a title all by himself. Jordan didn’t even do that with the Bulls. MJ became a dominant force in the NBA during the 86-87 season, averaging 37.1 ppg (DAMN!).

However, he still couldn’t get the Bulls past the Celtics (and later, the Pistons) until Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant developed into legitimate stars in their own right, and they swept the Pistons in the 90-91 conference finals. The precursor to the Bulls dynasty was the “Jordan Rules,” whereby the idea was to double- and triple-team MJ, hammer him whenever he went to the hoop (mostly done by the Pistons), and force him to rely on his teammates. To expect Kobe to do something that his Airness couldn’t even do makes the comparison unfair at this stage. If Ron Artest went to the Lakers instead of the Kings, then we could start making comparisons.

I’d heard the weight Arnold and Wilt were benching was in the 400’s, but thats still damn strong. My favorite thing about Wilt was that crazy house he had when he died. The whole thing was built for the sole purpose of banging broads. A pyramid-shaped room, a room that had a floor made of a wall-to-wall mattress, a moat running through the whole place, a couch made of the snout-hair of artic wolves, can you think of a tackier place?

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

Moronic! Simply moronic.

The league wasn’t watered down back then. He was double and triple teamed all game.

How many centers in the league right now are better–equal too–even close to Wilt.

You may like to suck Kobe off, but to say that Wilt couldn’t get on the floor right now shows your bias and inability
to even grasp the obvious.

Wilt benefited from narrower lanes, no ball handling responsibilities and an offense that consisted of dumping him the ball. He stood a good 6" over his counterpart and was stronger and faster most of the time. That wouldn’t be the case today. He wouldn’t even be one of the 20 most athletic CENTERS, his 8ft fade would be pushed to 14-16 feet and he wouldn’t know how to play without his physical advantages which would be extinct nowadays. He’d be just another player.

NBA tv just showed the game, and as hard is it is to believe Bryant got his 81 within the flow of the game. He didn’t start forcing things until the last 6 min, and he single handedly brought them back from an 18-point defecit.

I love watching clips of Pistol Pete, but he would be Steve Nash + 2 inches not an elite scorer.

Face it, the game has passed the players of yesteryear by. Todays player is bigger, stronger and faster with the benefit of the games evolution on their side. There have been so many advances in the understanding of the game [not unlike weight training]in the last few decades that it'd be foolish to think that it'd be a fair match.

You don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.[/quote]

Even more silly!!

Pistol would be MUCH more than Nash +2".

Get a clue. The guy averaged 50 a game with NO three. He was a much better ball handler than Nash and was 5x the shooter/scorer.

Yes, todays players are more athletic, but the skills were so much more developed back then. It ain’t football. They aren’t chasing each other down and tackling them.

And still idiotic to think Wilt wouldn’t be a top 20 center. I don’t even have to argue that point. You can’t even name the top 20 centers now because there aren’t 20.

[quote]masterblaster wrote:
Pro Basketball, its all about the win? Yeah, its more like its all about the “me”…the game has to be played that way I guess, I’m not a Pro B-Ball fan, this kind fo stuff and the players’ thug mentality that the kids immulate…I think Kobie is a ball hog…its all about him, that’s why Shack split that LA scene…Kobie…two assists…wow…Pro B-Ball sucks in my opinion.

MB[/quote]

This was an extremely ignorant post. Wilt also had 2 assists for his 100 point game. The interesting thing is the Lakers were LOSING until Bryant decided to take things into his own hands. Also, when Bryant scores more than 40 points, the Lakers are 8 and 5. When he scores under, they are 14 and 14. What does that tell you? Even at Michael Jordan’s peak of winning championships he was taking just as many shots as Kobe. Please add something intelligent to the discussion. And as for Shaq, the reason he was driven out was because Jerry Buss didn’t want to shell out $30 million per year for a lazy fat ass with declining skills prone to injuries and eating cheetos after games.

[quote]juice20jd wrote:
great accomplishment. can’t argue with 81 points. it’s a great feat.

however,it was against one of the worst, most inexperienced teams in the league though. just adding some perspective (without trying to take away the credit where its due).

And comparing Kobe to Jordan is ludicrous IMO. Jordan WAS the bulls. he had a decent supporting cast that complemented him well…but he made each and every one of them look much better than they were. plus he had unmatched desire, leadership skills, intimidation factor, clutch ability, and was a true student of the game. he was basically a player coach during the bulls title years, jackson didn’t really have to do all that much when you boil it all down. Kobe may match up in some ways, but he does not have the intagibles Jordan possessed…and he had Shaq.[/quote]

Judging Kobe to Jordan when you can look over Jordan’s entire career and Kobe is just getting started is plain ludicrous at this point. Jordan didn’t even win his first championship at Bryant’s current age. Also, Jordan was also carrying the offensive load like Bryant but still didn’t figure out how to win championships. Let’s hold judgement on the young man for another 10 years and see where he’s at. I’m not saying he’s Jordan, but to compare him to Jordan after we have the benefit of reflecting over Jordan’s entire career simply isn’t fair.

[quote]blitz78 wrote:
I must say that there is something eerily similiar between Jordan and Kobe. I root against the Lakers whenever they’re on tv, and nothing scares me more than when Kobe has in late-game/last-possession scenario… like Game 2 of the 2004 NBA Finals. He certainly has all the tools to be a Jordan-caliber superstar. The question is whether or not he chooses to grow up and utilize them.

“According to an NBA poll directed at general managers throughout the league before the 2005?06 season, Bryant was overwhelmingly voted as the player they would choose to take the last shot during the crucial moments of basketball games.”

Note: Bryant has made 21 game-winning shots so far in his career. In comparison, Jordan made 28 throughout his career.

And while I agree that Shaq was a big part of the Lakers (and Kobe) winning their 3 titles, I think people are being unfair to Kobe by expecting him to lead them to a title all by himself. Jordan didn’t even do that with the Bulls. MJ became a dominant force in the NBA during the 86-87 season, averaging 37.1 ppg (DAMN!).

However, he still couldn’t get the Bulls past the Celtics (and later, the Pistons) until Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant developed into legitimate stars in their own right, and they swept the Pistons in the 90-91 conference finals. The precursor to the Bulls dynasty was the “Jordan Rules,” whereby the idea was to double- and triple-team MJ, hammer him whenever he went to the hoop (mostly done by the Pistons), and force him to rely on his teammates. To expect Kobe to do something that his Airness couldn’t even do makes the comparison unfair at this stage. If Ron Artest went to the Lakers instead of the Kings, then we could start making comparisons.[/quote]

Excellent post by someone who obvious KNOWS basketball. A lot of the other stuff I’m reading on here is crap. Look at Kobe’s supporting cast so far. Odom? Mihm? Brown? Give me a break. Like you said, the Lakers are about one good player away from becoming an elite team again.

Today’s players are not as athletically superior to the players of yesterday as many would believe. The average player is more athletic nowadays because of the college strength and conditioning programs and such. However, do you think Lebron has ever picked up a weight in his life? Genetic freaks have always existed. Wilt was one of these and easily would dominate today’s game. Definitly not to the same extent, but he would be comporable to Shaq. Are you really going to tell me that a guy like Samuel Dalembert could check Wilt?

[quote]randman wrote:
juice20jd wrote:
great accomplishment. can’t argue with 81 points. it’s a great feat.

however,it was against one of the worst, most inexperienced teams in the league though. just adding some perspective (without trying to take away the credit where its due).

And comparing Kobe to Jordan is ludicrous IMO. Jordan WAS the bulls. he had a decent supporting cast that complemented him well…but he made each and every one of them look much better than they were. plus he had unmatched desire, leadership skills, intimidation factor, clutch ability, and was a true student of the game. he was basically a player coach during the bulls title years, jackson didn’t really have to do all that much when you boil it all down. Kobe may match up in some ways, but he does not have the intagibles Jordan possessed…and he had Shaq.

Judging Kobe to Jordan when you can look over Jordan’s entire career and Kobe is just getting started is plain ludicrous at this point. Jordan didn’t even win his first championship at Bryant’s current age. Also, Jordan was also carrying the offensive load like Bryant but still didn’t figure out how to win championships. Let’s hold judgement on the young man for another 10 years and see where he’s at. I’m not saying he’s Jordan, but to compare him to Jordan after we have the benefit of reflecting over Jordan’s entire career simply isn’t fair.[/quote]

should have placed that disclaimer in my post…it is unfair to compare him now, maybe down the road. I still don’t think he possesses the character and intagibles Jordan displayed though…in all fairness that may take time to develop…but it’s hard to imagine anyone on the same level as Jordan overall when you look at his physical and mental tools combined.

Pistol pete averaged 50 in college. He only cracked 30+ once in the league. Wilt Chamberlain is full of shit. I once read an interview with Nate Thurmond were the joke around the league was “how do you know wilt’s lying? His mouth is moving.” Wilt did not run a 4.4 he had no where near a 50" vert. He claimed that after all the hoopla surrounding Jordan so he could prove his superiority. I’d be surprised if he had a 30"[which is still impressive for someone over 7’2]. As a matter of fact, he was a high jumper at kansas. If he had near the vert he claimed he wouldn’t need techique, he could just jump over the bar from a standstill and set records whenever he felt like it. I’m not gonna even touch the 400lb thing. Wilt was great, I’m not denying that. Don’t believe everything you read, and don’t believe that yesterdays players could excel today.

It was cool, no doubt. BUT! And a big but it is! NO great defenders were on him! And he only had like 2 assists! He doesn’t get his teammates involved enough.

I have on dvd of Pete Maravich scoring 68 pts. on the Knicks from 1977. And that was with no 3 pt! If there was a 3 pt. he would have had 79 pts! He also had assists, steals & rebounds!

And guess who was defending Pete in that game!? BUTCH BEARD, EARL THE PEARL MONROE & AND IT’S A BIG AND! TADA! WALT FRAZIER!!! It’s the most exciting game I’ve ever seen!

I like Kobe alot, but he’s not even the best player in LA!!! Can you say BRAND!!!

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Pistol pete averaged 50 in college. He only cracked 30+ once in the league. Wilt Chamberlain is full of shit. I once read an interview with Nate Thurmond were the joke around the league was “how do you know wilt’s lying? His mouth is moving.” Wilt did not run a 4.4 he had no where near a 50" vert. He claimed that after all the hoopla surrounding Jordan so he could prove his superiority. I’d be surprised if he had a 30"[which is still impressive for someone over 7’2]. As a matter of fact, he was a high jumper at kansas. If he had near the vert he claimed he wouldn’t need techique, he could just jump over the bar from a standstill and set records whenever he felt like it. I’m not gonna even touch the 400lb thing. Wilt was great, I’m not denying that. Don’t believe everything you read, and don’t believe that yesterdays players could excel today.[/quote]

Only cracked 30 + once in the league?! ARe you kidding or something?!!! You have no clue buddy!

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
how does one score 7 points from the 3 point line??

He made 7/3’s
Wilt had no threes
If accounting just for shots made, it equals 7 extra points with less shot attempts.

Sidebar:

As great as Wilt’s scoring and now Kobe’s is being exhaulted–
Pistol Pete would score 50 a game in todays game[/quote]

Hell ya he would have! In the pre-season in 80’81’ when they brought in the 3 pts. line, guess what Pete was behind the arc? 15-20!!! But his body was wearing out on him, so he retired. He would have torn it up big time in today’s game.

He had shots, passes, ball-handling & moves that you still don’t even see in todays game!

maybe he’s referring to a 30ppg avg over the season?

[quote]Melvin Smiley wrote:
I got to see Maravich and Gervin play a game of horse once on “Vintage NBA”, that was incredible.[/quote]

I’ve heard of that! What was it like & who won!!! I’m always doing searches for anything & everything that has to do with Maravich.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

Moronic! Simply moronic.

The league wasn’t watered down back then. He was double and triple teamed all game.

How many centers in the league right now are better–equal too–even close to Wilt.

You may like to suck Kobe off, but to say that Wilt couldn’t get on the floor right now shows your bias and inability
to even grasp the obvious.

Wilt benefited from narrower lanes, no ball handling responsibilities and an offense that consisted of dumping him the ball. He stood a good 6" over his counterpart and was stronger and faster most of the time. That wouldn’t be the case today. He wouldn’t even be one of the 20 most athletic CENTERS, his 8ft fade would be pushed to 14-16 feet and he wouldn’t know how to play without his physical advantages which would be extinct nowadays. He’d be just another player.

NBA tv just showed the game, and as hard is it is to believe Bryant got his 81 within the flow of the game. He didn’t start forcing things until the last 6 min, and he single handedly brought them back from an 18-point defecit.

I love watching clips of Pistol Pete, but he would be Steve Nash + 2 inches not an elite scorer.

Face it, the game has passed the players of yesteryear by. Todays player is bigger, stronger and faster with the benefit of the games evolution on their side. There have been so many advances in the understanding of the game [not unlike weight training]in the last few decades that it'd be foolish to think that it'd be a fair match.

You don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.[/quote]

Nash is a way better player than Kobe. Nash does EVERYTHING OUT ON THE COURT. Nash could go to the Hawks right now & they would make the playoffs! That’s how good he is. If Kobe went to the Hawks, they would still be bad & Josh Smith would have to kick his ass. :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
maybe he’s referring to a 30ppg avg over the season?[/quote]

You may be right. In 76-77 he avg. 31.1 pts. to lead the league.

Wow… Nash better than Kobe, I doubt it. There’s a reason why Dallas put up a better record AFTER Nash left…

I meant a 30+ average for a season for the Pistol.
Kobe Bryant is bar none the most advanced offensive player in the game. I actually posted that very statement a year or more ago on here on another hoopin thread.
Steve Nash is a helluva player, and is a testament to bustin ass to get to the top [He sat behind Kevin Johnson and Kidd his first few years]but I think he’d even admit Kobe Bryant is in a class all by himself at this point in the game.The things he can do offensively are bananas, and damn near every player interviewed will call him the most talented player in the League.
To the poster who questioned if Lebron James lifts. Yes, he has been working with strength&speed[I think thats the name] sports in Ohio since his Soph or Jr. year of highschool.
Read interviews around the league. There isn’t another player who thinks they could get over 65 in a game, and Kobe has almost done it 3 times. 81 the other night, 61 in 33 min [which is absurd, and who knows what coulda happened] against Dallas a month or so ago and 56 in 35 min against Memphis a few years back.In the last two games I’ve mentioned Bryant didn’t play a single second of the 4th quarter. Think about that for a minute.

To whomever said Jordan had a “decent supporting cast” that’s absurd. Scottie Pippen, Ho Grant, Paxson, Cartwright, Bj Armstrong for the first 3 and Pip, Rodman, Kerr, Harper Randy Brown and a host of other players who did what they were paid to do. Fill a role.
I personnally feel Pippen is/was way overrated, but I don’t think Jordan would have gotten where he did [in terms of rings]without him, especially later in his career when he didn’t have to devote equal energy to both ends. Pippen took a huge devensive load off of Jordan when he came back the first time, which allowed 23 to focus on scoring and being the center of their offense. Not saying 23 couldn’t still lock down whoever he wanted whenever he wanted.