Knife Self Defense

Minutia matters when it comes to the blade though, and the “Devil is in the details” as they say. The concept is similar yes, McCann is definitely onto the right track with closing the distance, taking out the attacker instead of fixating on the weapon, and his overall intensity/energy. What he is showing is better than 95% of the stuff I see being touted as knife defense stuff.

Rich’s stuff is just that 5% more refined and therefore will give you just that little extra protection that may mean the difference between suffering a potentially lethal stab or slash should you ever find yourself in a truly worst case scenario knife attack.

I will point out all of the little differences that make a difference between the two techniques so it becomes more clear:

  1. notice Ryan’s body positioning, he has compressed his body structure in such a way as to not only pull his abdomen further away from his opponent, but also made himself a smaller more compact target overall; this effectively minimizes the potentially lethal targets and gaps that his opponent can access making his just a “wall of bone” that his opponent must try to figure a way through/around.

In contrast McCann is much more upright and even goes as far as to expand even further when he reaches out to block the slash/stab. This makes accessing his vital targets much easier and also requires that he judge the line of attack perfectly to be successful.

  1. Notice that when Ryan closes on the target he remains in his compact position and simply repositions his “shield” so that he beats his opponent to the target. Shielding is a different process and mentality to blocking which, if you have never been exposed to it or don’t fully understand the difference, may look very similar to an untrained eye, but has drastically decreased timing and line recognition requirements thus making it a more effective method of defense against a “swarming” attack.

McCann on the other hand executed a double forearm block, which works great if your opponent throws a predictable line single slash/stab, but falls apart due to it’s timing and exacting line recognition requirements against an unpredictable line slash/stab or swarm. Your margin for error against a knife are far less than unarmed, and fractions of an inch could mean the difference between surviving and winding up dead.

  1. once inside Ryan winds up in essentially a “shot put” position where his whole body is loaded and he can drive with his most powerful musculature and throws a full body strike into the opponent’s brain with the intention of “wiping them off the face of the planet” as Rich says in the video, and continues to do so until he can either escape or completely incapacitates the opponent. He is seeking to minimize time frame and entanglement as the longer the fights lasts the worse your chances of survival and the more connected/entangled you become the less mobility you have should you have to quickly untangle yourself and escape.

McCann on the other hand throws a relatively weak chopping/hammerfist style attack which is powered by relatively weak muscles (posterior deltoid, triceps, obliques, and maybe some drive from his left leg and hip). He does not wind up in a power/drive position at contact when he blocks and must therefore reposition in order to achieve such a position prior to landing (which takes extra times that he does not have) or throw a relatively weak speed shot. He also again seeks to entangle himself with the attacker, thus making an escape more difficult as well as leaving him open to those liabilities that I outlined before should his speed strike not have the desired stunning effect that it was intended to.

So again, Cliff Notes version.

-Ryan uses a more compact body positioning thus minimizing opponent’s access to lethal targets.

-Ryan shields rather than blocks, thus decreasing the timing and line recognition requirements and minimizes the chances of his opponent capitalizing on openings should he misjudge the line of attack

-Ryan winds up in a power/drive position once inside that allows him to immediately generate a full power initial strike to the opponent’s brain thus giving him the best possible chances of interrupting his opponent’s attacks and he continues his assault until he can either escape or finished his opponent

-Ryan remains untangled with his opponent and therefore he can disengage and escape much quicker should he have to in the even that other people enter the fray or should he seek to access his own weapon (and use Batman’s solution for example), and doesn’t risk his opponent severing his Brachial Artery by placing the blade arm under his upper arm

[quote]mike100s wrote:
sento the video you posted is really interesting and i agree with a lot of the things you said.But imagine an opponent which can really control the fighting distance(nothing really difficult to do particularly with a knife).That for me would almost certainly mean that what richard ryan demonstrates which from what i understand is closing the distance (while i cover my important parts) and striking on his vulnerable parts becomes really difficult if not impossible. Now even with anything of importance covered none can guarantee that he even by luck wont hit something important since his hand is free to just stab me.

I believe its a bit more important for me to control what presents the biggest danger(the attacking hand) prefferably by grabbing and holding so i can then freely hit and do some real damage.Now to do that of course i propably need to be a bit stronger and propably luckier but well after all he has a knife.Lastly i believe that to grab-control his attacking hand you cant just wait for an attack i believe you must first in some way grab and control his forward hand(provided the attacking hand is the back one) so you can in some way manipulate his angle.if i didnt made any sense just tell me. haha[/quote]

If the opponent is controlling distance then:

  1. you should be escaping, seeking to gain access to a weapon of your own, or putting some sort of barrier between you and them; you only engage someone with a knife if your only other choice is to allow them to kill you (or someone you need to protect)

  2. if you can’t get close enough to land strikes on their head, good luck grabbing their arm with any kind of legitimate control. Trying to will most likely wind up with you dead. Shielding and closing will result in you taking some cuts, but again your chances of them being on nonlethal targets is about as good as you’re going to get (which still are not anywhere gauranteed, thus refer to point 1)

  3. most poeple can move forward faster than most people can move backwards

1)Your opponent controlling the distance doesnt really mean you can escape for a variety of reasons.everything else you mentioned like taking a weapon of your own or creating some sort of barrier is something that you need to look for constantly again not only when he is controlling the distance.

2)well the argument can be made that since he can control the distance he is skilled enough to kill you pretty easily(i think that this is not necessarily so since i believe that with a knife controlling the distance is pretty easy).But any way grabbing the hand even for a second long enough to land 1-2 hard strikes on a vital spot i would think is more feasible and than chasing the guy around while he stabs you(even if that isnt in a vital spot).

3)I dont think distance control is about how fast you can move(though that is a factor) it is also about what happens when you take a step.for example in a boxing bout a punch is a weapon that can be used to control the distance. every step i take i get punched or i get punched before i take a step.well now imagine that only with a knife.

And lastly.What does strikes on the head mean?It would seem the best spot would be the neck other the that you can punch him but it propably wont do much.Pretty difficult to land a decent neck strike while you are getting stabbed.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

  1. you should be escaping, seeking to gain access to a weapon of your own, or putting some sort of barrier between you and them; you only engage someone with a knife if your only other choice is to allow them to kill you (or someone you need to protect)

  2. if you can’t get close enough to land strikes on their head, good luck grabbing their arm with any kind of legitimate control. Trying to will most likely wind up with you dead. Shielding and closing will result in you taking some cuts, but again your chances of them being on nonlethal targets is about as good as you’re going to get (which still are not anywhere gauranteed, thus refer to point 1)
    [/quote]

Yea, agree with this. Control the distance dude. Go for it. That means I got enough room to get the fuck outta here.

But again, we’re straying into this realm of, “He’s got a knife out, he’s showing it to me, I can evaluate and then act.” And that’s not what happens.

I know the kinda dudes that would stab you, and they don’t do things like that. They’d just wait for you to go to your car, run up behind you, and put a knife into your liver and kidneys over and over and over before taking off and running away.

It’s more “assassination” than “fight.” But that’s why situational awareness saves your ass.

It happens a lot where i live that a dude fist fights and then decides he just cant pull it off haha and draws a knife.That it is the situation you can find yourself i believe when it comes to knife defense knowing already that there is a knife in play.Assasination is another matter entirely and the guys that carry it out arent propably something you can deal with in a

[quote]mike100s wrote:
It happens a lot where i live that a dude fist fights and then decides he just cant pull it off haha and draws a knife.That it is the situation you can find yourself i believe when it comes to knife defense knowing already that there is a knife in play.Assasination is another matter entirely and the guys that carry it out arent propably something you can deal with in a [/quote]

Even that shit is dangerous though. If you don’t see the dude draw the knife, you could think it’s a punch coming when in reality, there’s a blade there. Like I said, I’ve read a lot of after-action shit where guys report that they thought they were getting punched or hit when they were actually being stabbed repeatedly.

Knives just suck dicks.

[quote]mike100s wrote:
1)Your opponent controlling the distance doesnt really mean you can escape for a variety of reasons.everything else you mentioned like taking a weapon of your own or creating some sort of barrier is something that you need to look for constantly again not only when he is controlling the distance.

2)well the argument can be made that since he can control the distance he is skilled enough to kill you pretty easily(i think that this is not necessarily so since i believe that with a knife controlling the distance is pretty easy).But any way grabbing the hand even for a second long enough to land 1-2 hard strikes on a vital spot i would think is more feasible and than chasing the guy around while he stabs you(even if that isnt in a vital spot).

3)I dont think distance control is about how fast you can move(though that is a factor) it is also about what happens when you take a step.for example in a boxing bout a punch is a weapon that can be used to control the distance. every step i take i get punched or i get punched before i take a step.well now imagine that only with a knife.[/quote]

  1. yes of course you would always want to be escaping, accessing a weapon, or using cover/a barrier to impede access to you; that’s my point. Engaging a knife wielding opponent should be a last resort and the only time you should do it is when there are no better choices available. If the person is keeping you out of reach that automatically means they are backing by up and giving you distance in which case you should be looking to do one of those other things. They cannot be simultaneously staying away from you and coming after you; it’s one or the other. And if they are coming after you and you can’t do one of those other things, then you engage them full on. It’s either a fully commited assault or one of those other options, anything in between is going to get you killed.

  2. try giving any relatively athletic friend a magic marker and telling them to fully resist you, try to mark you up with it, and not let you get a hold of it sometime; you will look like a 3 year old’s coloring book after a very short time. Grabbing someone’s hand while it is moving at full speed and they are trying to stay away from you and not let you do so is nearly impossible, numerous independent Martial Artists and Combatives groups have proven this time and again. This is where pressure testing things against full resistance separates reality from speculation and fantasy. Rich has pressure tested the body shield (and everything he teaches) exhaustingly with everything from his civilian students to the LEO’s and military personnel that he has trained. It provides the best chances for survival (even though again this is not a situation that any of us should feel completely confident in).

  3. but it is about how fast you can move. Again, if you are giving me space to escape or “move up the ladder” to a better option you can believe I am taking it. If there is no room for me to maneuver to escape that means that either you are close enough to me so that I can close on you (and yes I will likely get cut on the way in), or there is no room for you to maneuver either (for instance if we were both in an elevator) and therefore again I will be able to close on you. If you can back up fast enough to keep me from being able to engage you then that means that either you were far enough away from me that I could have tried to escape to begin with or that there is enough room that I’ll just continue right on running past you to escape.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

  1. you should be escaping, seeking to gain access to a weapon of your own, or putting some sort of barrier between you and them; you only engage someone with a knife if your only other choice is to allow them to kill you (or someone you need to protect)

  2. if you can’t get close enough to land strikes on their head, good luck grabbing their arm with any kind of legitimate control. Trying to will most likely wind up with you dead. Shielding and closing will result in you taking some cuts, but again your chances of them being on nonlethal targets is about as good as you’re going to get (which still are not anywhere gauranteed, thus refer to point 1)
    [/quote]

Yea, agree with this. Control the distance dude. Go for it. That means I got enough room to get the fuck outta here.

But again, we’re straying into this realm of, “He’s got a knife out, he’s showing it to me, I can evaluate and then act.” And that’s not what happens.

I know the kinda dudes that would stab you, and they don’t do things like that. They’d just wait for you to go to your car, run up behind you, and put a knife into your liver and kidneys over and over and over before taking off and running away.

It’s more “assassination” than “fight.” But that’s why situational awareness saves your ass.

Well, it does happen, but in that case it’s more that the person is using the knife as a threat to get something out of you. What you are talking about is using the weapon as a weapon and essentially an assassination attempt. Really your only defense against that is going to be awareness, or just plain dumb luck. Even then though you should be fighting back as soon as you realize what is happening to you as you still may have a chance or surviving, and the only other real option is to just roll over and die and let the person keep poking more and more leaks in you.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]mike100s wrote:
It happens a lot where i live that a dude fist fights and then decides he just cant pull it off haha and draws a knife.That it is the situation you can find yourself i believe when it comes to knife defense knowing already that there is a knife in play.Assasination is another matter entirely and the guys that carry it out arent propably something you can deal with in a [/quote]

Even that shit is dangerous though. If you don’t see the dude draw the knife, you could think it’s a punch coming when in reality, there’s a blade there. Like I said, I’ve read a lot of after-action shit where guys report that they thought they were getting punched or hit when they were actually being stabbed repeatedly.

Knives just suck dicks. [/quote]

Agree. My understanding is that more often than not the first indicator people have that they are in a knife fight is when they see blood. By then there are often a number of extra holes in them. Yet again, awareness and good risk management choices trump skill/technique every day and twice on Sunday.

A “fist fight” is a lose/lose proposition. Best case scenario, you gain nothing, make it out whole and avoid getting arrested/charged. Worst case you end up in jail, damaged or dead. In no scenario do you actually “win”, in the sense of being better off than you were before the altercation.

Go to stupid places, hang with stupid people, do stupid things=win stupid prizes.