Knife Control

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Also, attendance at university is very much voluntary, so if somebody really thinks they’re gonna need their gun on them at all times to fight off would-be Orwellian overlords over the course of the next four years, they don’t have to go.

Edited[/quote]

Wow.

E’ery time I get to postulatin’ this here smh feller is brighter than the average light bulb you have to come along with a 30 round magazine full of nonsense and blow my theory to smithereens.

Yeah, you go right ahead and ridicule rape victim Amanda Collins out in Colorado (and others) about her paranoia about Orwellian overlords. Wag your finger in her face. Taunt her. Laugh at her and tell her she should’ve just never even gone to college, the dumb ignorant bitch.[/quote]

Well, thanks for the fifth of a compliment Push.

Anyway, I’m not taunting anybody, but I am making the point that the major philosophical underpinning of the Second Amendment–to paraphrase you, not sporting and not even self-defense in its narrower sense–is unthreatened by a gun ban in the forms of an institution with which affiliation is entirely voluntary. There are a coupe dozens schools, by the way, that allow students to carry firearms. If that’s important to somebody, they can go to one of those.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Also, attendance at university is very much voluntary, so if somebody really thinks they’re gonna need their gun on them at all times to fight off would-be Orwellian overlords over the course of the next four years, they don’t have to go.

Edited[/quote]

Wow.

E’ery time I get to postulatin’ this here smh feller is brighter than the average light bulb you have to come along with a 30 round magazine full of nonsense and blow my theory to smithereens.

Yeah, you go right ahead and ridicule rape victim Amanda Collins out in Colorado (and others) about her paranoia about Orwellian overlords. Wag your finger in her face. Taunt her. Laugh at her and tell her she should’ve just never even gone to college, the dumb ignorant bitch.[/quote]

Well, thanks for the fifth of a compliment Push.

Anyway, I’m not taunting anybody, but I am making the point that the major philosophical underpinning of the Second Amendment–to paraphrase you, not sporting and not even self-defense in its narrower sense–is unthreatened by a gun ban in the forms of an institution with which affiliation is entirely voluntary. There are a coupe dozens schools, by the way, that allow students to carry firearms. If that’s important to somebody, they can go to one of those.[/quote]

So, if a school says no openly gay students, and gay rights are important to you, you just shouldn’t go there?

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Well, I think that probably depends on the school. I was under the impression that there were laws in places banning them in schools.

But either way, If they say guns, then guns. So why have a stance on the issue? You are speaking out against active involvement of the students in shaping the school’s they attend. [/quote]

Again, I have a stance on the issue because of experience. Though I do think that a school that really wants to allow its students to have guns on campus is perfectly within its right.

Anyway, this isn’t a matter or principal. My opinion of the general student body at American university–and I’ve spent the better part of the past decade at one or another institution of higher education–is so low as to make it literally impossible for me to think that this could possibly be a good idea.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

Honestly–and I’m not a “take all the guns away” guy when it comes to society at large–my experiences on college campuses, which have been many and recent, compel me to believe that guns should be completely and entirely absent from them…

[/quote]

How would you propose to insure this “completeness” and “entirety?”
[/quote]

The same way cocaine is “completely and entirely” absent from the dorms.

[/quote]

Cocaine: ~99% of time = bad things happen

Guns: ~99% of time = good things happen

Cocaine: not a natural right that extends back to 1600’s and guaranteed by federal constitution and all 50 state constitutions and essential for effective personal self defense and the ultimate defense of liberty.

Guns: a natural right that extends back to 1600’s and guaranteed by federal constitution and all 50 state constitutions and essential for effective personal self defense and the ultimate defense of liberty.
[/quote]

Understood, which is exactly why I threw “bring a pet” into my list–to try and seem like I wasn’t trying to equate guns and drugs in a moral sense.

In other words, the point I made had nothing to do with their benefits/dangers, but was simply a note about enforceability.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Well, I think that probably depends on the school. I was under the impression that there were laws in places banning them in schools.

But either way, If they say guns, then guns. So why have a stance on the issue? You are speaking out against active involvement of the students in shaping the school’s they attend. [/quote]

Again, I have a stance on the issue because of experience. Though I do think that a school that really wants to allow its students to have guns on campus is perfectly within its right.

Anyway, this isn’t a matter or principal. My opinion of the general student body at American university–and I’ve spent the better part of the past decade at one or another institution of higher education–is so low as to make it literally impossible for me to think that this could possibly be a good idea.[/quote]

Funny, it’s the low-lifes on campus that give me the notion I should be allowed to carry to defend myself.

And again, if the schools swap their rule to allow carry, and you don’t like it, you should just leave, it’s voluntary.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Also, attendance at university is very much voluntary, so if somebody really thinks they’re gonna need their gun on them at all times to fight off would-be Orwellian overlords over the course of the next four years, they don’t have to go.

Edited[/quote]

I’ve always hated this kind of argument. It could just as easily be made in the exact opposite manner. Mainly, students should be free to carry guns, if YOU don’t like other students carrying, you don’t have to go.

The default state, not having a law against carrying, actually has the stronger argument in that regard. If the argument stands that “if you don’t like it don’t go there” guns should never have been pro actively banned to suit the students that didn’t want other to carry.[/quote]

It’s not me, it’s the university.

It’s their show and they get to tell their students how they’re going to run it.

And if they say no guns, then no guns.[/quote]

Well, I think that probably depends on the school. I was under the impression that there were laws in places banning them in schools.
[/quote]

I do not not know the answer to this, but I do know that there are a number of schools which allow gun ownership.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

And again, if the schools swap their rule to allow carry, and you don’t like it, you should just leave, it’s voluntary.[/quote]

Of course.

This is simply an opinion.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Also, attendance at university is very much voluntary, so if somebody really thinks they’re gonna need their gun on them at all times to fight off would-be Orwellian overlords over the course of the next four years, they don’t have to go.

Edited[/quote]

Wow.

E’ery time I get to postulatin’ this here smh feller is brighter than the average light bulb you have to come along with a 30 round magazine full of nonsense and blow my theory to smithereens.

Yeah, you go right ahead and ridicule rape victim Amanda Collins out in Colorado (and others) about her paranoia about Orwellian overlords. Wag your finger in her face. Taunt her. Laugh at her and tell her she should’ve just never even gone to college, the dumb ignorant bitch.[/quote]

Well, thanks for the fifth of a compliment Push.

Anyway, I’m not taunting anybody, but I am making the point that the major philosophical underpinning of the Second Amendment–to paraphrase you, not sporting and not even self-defense in its narrower sense–is unthreatened by a gun ban in the forms of an institution with which affiliation is entirely voluntary. There are a coupe dozens schools, by the way, that allow students to carry firearms. If that’s important to somebody, they can go to one of those.[/quote]

So, if a school says no openly gay students, and gay rights are important to you, you just shouldn’t go there? [/quote]

That’s illegal, is it not?

^ Just did research. Apparently, that would be perfectly fine so long as the school did not receive any federal money (A-DA '77).

So, yeah, that’s exactly what a gay kid should do if dismissed from or denied entry to college.

[quote]smh23 wrote:
^ Just did research. Apparently, that would be perfectly fine so long as the school did not receive any federal money (A-DA '77).

So, yeah, that’s exactly what a gay kid should do if dismissed from or denied entry to college.[/quote]

BUT there is also a right to carry arms, and these schools receive state money.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
^ Just did research. Apparently, that would be perfectly fine so long as the school did not receive any federal money (A-DA '77).

So, yeah, that’s exactly what a gay kid should do if dismissed from or denied entry to college.[/quote]

BUT there is also a right to carry arms, and these schools receive state money.[/quote]

There’s nothing that says the operators of a university are mandated to allow people who choose to attend their school to bring guns into their dorms, regardless of federal money. Absolutely not.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
^ Just did research. Apparently, that would be perfectly fine so long as the school did not receive any federal money (A-DA '77).

So, yeah, that’s exactly what a gay kid should do if dismissed from or denied entry to college.[/quote]

BUT there is also a right to carry arms, and these schools receive state money.[/quote]

There’s nothing that says the operators of a university are mandated to allow people who choose to attend their school to bring guns into their dorms, regardless of federal money. Absolutely not.[/quote]

Well, that’s arguable, the second amendment is a law. BUT that isn’t my point. It’s morally equivalent.

“Illegal” and “there is a right” are two very different things.

It is illegal to deny a homosexual admission to university recipient of public funds on the grounds of his sexual orientation. Can’t do it.

–There is a right against unreasonable search and seizure–and yet my dorm room was routinely searched in college, despite the fact that I’ve never attended a a university that operated entirely without federal assistance.

–There is a right to free speech and press, and yet I could have been expelled from Columbia had I written about the institution itself in a non-affiliated publication while actively in attendance at the school.

Anyway, as I said, this isn’t a question of principal for me.

I know college well enough to know that arming most college kids carries vastly more risk than benefit for everybody on campus.

[quote]smh23 wrote:
“Illegal” and “there is a right” are two very different things.

It is illegal to deny a homosexual admission to university recipient of public funds on the grounds of his sexual orientation. Can’t do it.

–There is a right against unreasonable search and seizure–and yet my dorm room was routinely searched in college, despite the fact that I’ve never attended a a university that operated entirely without federal assistance.

–There is a right to free speech and press, and yet I could have been expelled from Columbia had I written about the institution itself in a non-affiliated publication while actively in attendance at the school.

[/quote]

So why do you think gay rights are different and apparently more fundamental that speech or probably cause?

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Anyway, as I said, this isn’t a question of principal for me.

I know college well enough to know that arming most college kids carries vastly more risk than benefit for everybody on campus.[/quote]

Arming and not disarming legally carrying individuals, are 2 different things.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
“Illegal” and “there is a right” are two very different things.

It is illegal to deny a homosexual admission to university recipient of public funds on the grounds of his sexual orientation. Can’t do it.

–There is a right against unreasonable search and seizure–and yet my dorm room was routinely searched in college, despite the fact that I’ve never attended a a university that operated entirely without federal assistance.

–There is a right to free speech and press, and yet I could have been expelled from Columbia had I written about the institution itself in a non-affiliated publication while actively in attendance at the school.

[/quote]

So why do you think gay rights are different and apparently more fundamental that speech or probably cause?[/quote]

I didn’t write any of these statutes, and I certainly didn’t write the BOR. I’m describing reality.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
“Illegal” and “there is a right” are two very different things.

It is illegal to deny a homosexual admission to university recipient of public funds on the grounds of his sexual orientation. Can’t do it.

–There is a right against unreasonable search and seizure–and yet my dorm room was routinely searched in college, despite the fact that I’ve never attended a a university that operated entirely without federal assistance.

–There is a right to free speech and press, and yet I could have been expelled from Columbia had I written about the institution itself in a non-affiliated publication while actively in attendance at the school.

[/quote]

So why do you think gay rights are different and apparently more fundamental that speech or probably cause?[/quote]

I didn’t write any of these statutes, and I certainly didn’t write the BOR. I’m describing reality.[/quote]

And I’m not asking about the statutes.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
Anyway, as I said, this isn’t a question of principal for me.

I know college well enough to know that arming most college kids carries vastly more risk than benefit for everybody on campus.[/quote]

Arming and not disarming legally carrying individuals, are 2 different things.[/quote]

Allowing most college kids to keep guns in their dorms, then.

Again, if they don’t like it, they can leave. Just like with public housing complexes that restrict firearm ownership or carry.

Just like with dorms where warrantless searches take place. Just like with dry dorms where people who are legally allowed to drink are not allowed to store or consume alcohol. Just like with professors who are legally allowed to bar students from entering classrooms and taking tests if they have notes written on their hands. Just like how professors can remove students from their classrooms for exercising their right to free speech, even at a whisper.

College is not, and should not be, regular life. Anybody who argues differently has not spent a lot of time observing a campus.