T Nation

Knife Attack


#1

Watched a couple of videos this morning on this latest knife assault. It's been some time since we have discussed any knife tactics. It glaringly obvious of some of the mistakes made, and I think a good discussion on situational awareness and making good decisions when you find yourself in a shit storm is beneficial. There are some new members here now, and they would benefit from your advice and experience. The CNN video is the best for a close up shot. I will also post some previous discussions.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/french-train-attack/video-shows-french-train-hero-
spencer-stone-stabbed-behind-brawl-n441251

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_boxing_fighting_mma_combat/knife_self_defense

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_boxing_fighting_mma_combat/situational_awareness


The Tactical Life
#2

Well, I think the obvious first mistake (and one we should all always strive to avoid) was allowing his pride/ego to talk him into getting into a fight in the first place.

Now, of course since we don’t know the details of why the fight started from these videos it’s also possible that Stone’s friend was the one who started the fight and Stone was just trying to defend his buddy and got sucked in. Or it’s possible that he tried everything he could to avoid the altercation but his attackers were not taking “no” for an answer. So, I’m not blaming Stone for getting himself stabbed by any means; just making the above point because it is so important not only tactically (after all avoiding a fight is the single highest percentage way to survive it), but also legally and morally (since fighting outside of sanctioned sporting events, LEO work, military service, or other professional “enforcer” types of work is illegal and only permissible in situations of self defense).

As far as his tactics in the actual confrontation go:

The good:
-he did a good job of maintaining his mobility and not getting too badly surrounded or entangled with any one opponent
-decent evasive footwork
-utilized primarily punching/hand attacks which maintained mobility while also giving potential for KO’ing opponent(s)

The bad:
-would have liked to see more “stacking”/lining up his opponents to prevent himself from letting anyone get behind him and make it so he only had to fight one person at a time
-would prefer a tighter “guard” that would provide for better “incidental defense”
-would have preferred more use of the environment (there were parked cars and a lamp post, to name a few things, that he could have used to slow his opponents’ ability to access him and/or as structural environmental weapons
-since he seemed to be outnumbered I would have suggested to him to look for improvised weapon options (he could have for example taken off his shirt and used that as a flexible weapon)

As for not seeing the knife though, the video makes it appear that it was poorly lit and there were multiple attackers (which definitely decrease your chances of seeing one of them draw a tactical folder/small blade), so I’m not surprised. This is a good example though why you should always assume that your opponent(s) will not “play fair”, are armed until proven otherwise (not the other way around), and why should you decide to fight you need to give it everything you’ve got to take them out as quickly as possible.


#3

Dude’s an idiot. Shouldn’t have been fighting - especially against multiple assailants - even if he didn’t know they had a knife.

Typical rookie “fighter” mistakes: too much bouncing, no plan, wild swinging. He’s lucky as fuck he didn’t get killed.


#4

He probably thought he was invincible after his takedown of the terrorist. Knives scare me…


#5

From what I’ve read since, the guy was fighting in response to a girl being slapped around by one of the guys. After the fight, once he’d been stabbed and left dying, my understanding is that the girl went home with the guys who’d been beating on her.

To my mind, this is the trickiest part of any self-defense/violent action scenario that you come upon with imperfect knowledge of the situation in front of you. I think many of us here would like to think of ourselves as civic minded, responsible, and honourable men who would step in to protect those less capable from suffering unwarranted or unmitigated harm. I have stepped in in the past to protect women from being physically attacked in the street.

Fortunately, on each occasion the woman in question has not known, or not been in a relationship with her attacker, and the situation has been easily diffused. I can honestly say, and in a sense I’m ashamed to write it, that there is no situation I am more reluctant to step into, or more hesitant to attempt to resolve, than that of male on female violence. I know too many stories from my own life and those around me of situations where some woman is seemingly getting smashed by a bloke, and a good Samaritan intervenes, only to find the woman attacking him, or stabbing him, for his troubles. The hesitancy this scenario produces, ironically, makes the situation that much more dangerous as a result.

This is particularly true of the situation in the Spencer Stone case. The guy actually handled himself pretty well as far as I can tell. I just don’t think that even for the best of us we could hope to do that much better faced with similar numbers of attackers, potentially all of whom were armed. Just because one guy drew and got all stabby, doesn’t mean that if that character was flattened his other mates might not have had weapons they could produce too.

It’s a frightening prospect and a lesson to us all that we should not allow ourselves to be drawn into action through our own naivety. Any decision to act must be taken having firmly embraced the possibility of some very unpleasant personal consequences, not just for ourselves, but for our families who may have to identify whatever is left of us should we come off worst.


#6

Really good posts from all, thanks.

London,
Good to see you back here. You are right about stepping in on a street domestic violence scene, rarely does it ever work for you either civilly and criminally.


#7

I thought he moved well, but I’m no great judge.

Don’t get involved with domestic situations period.


#8

Sir,
You have my respect. I hope at 75 years of age, I can answer the call to defend the innocent. Just goes to show, no matter your age, train hard, be ready.


#9

[quote]idaho wrote:

Sir,
You have my respect. I hope at 75 years of age, I can answer the call to defend the innocent. Just goes to show, no matter your age, train hard, be ready. [/quote]

Absolutely! Well done Mr Vernon! Thank you for your service and having the courage to stand up to evil.


#10

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:

Sir,
You have my respect. I hope at 75 years of age, I can answer the call to defend the innocent. Just goes to show, no matter your age, train hard, be ready. [/quote]

Absolutely! Well done Mr Vernon! Thank you for your service and having the courage to stand up to evil.[/quote]

Agreed. A stud is a stud, regardless of age. His wife’s complete lack of surprise speaks volumes about the gentleman’s general character.

Regarding the Spencer Stone video: giving Stone the benefit of the doubt that he needed to be in the fight in the first place, I don’t have much to add to what’s been said. Sento’s comments most closely reflect my thoughts/training on the technical aspects of the subject. Overall what I would say that what he did the best job of was staying mobile and preventing his attackers from encircling him.

I would also say that Stone may have been better served by looking for his out a bit sooner (assuming that no one was directly dependent on his protection). Just before the 20 second mark in the CNN video one of the attackers is knocked to the ground. Stone’s momentum at that point carries him mostly into the clear with what from another camera angle appears to be a wide open street behind him.

Instead of disengaging, grabbing that little bit of daylight and opting for the 100 yard dash Stone changes direction moves back into the midst of his assailants and sacrifices his mobility to attack the dude who’s grounded. Incidentally this where he gets stabbed.

Of course, it’s pretty easy for me to criticize. I’m under a sleeping bag on my couch, not fighting a bunch of dudes on a dark street.


#11

now this was a fight


#12

Good post Sento!

To end up tangled with asian gangsters you pretty much have to ask for it… am I right? amiright?


#13

Please know that these are simply my opinions, obviously and any insights and advice would be appreciated! I also realize this may not be the perfect thread, yet I started typing my response about knives and my post evolved to what it currently says.

Know that I do not ever want to get shot with any caliber of gun over being cut with any type of knife. Yet if someone does not know how to fight and they have a knife that is sharp, I would preferably try to defend the gun versus the knife everyday of the week, at any time of day. A gun has to be aimed and the person pulling the trigger has to have an idea of what is happening. A really sharp knife does not have to have any special skills applied. Cuts hurt a lot more and heal far slower than a bullet, I have been told.

A few years ago I purchased a Spyderco Civilian and I carry the knife with me every day [then I bought their sharpener and it became even more of a weapon]. I have full intention of buying a .380 shortly after or before the Christmas holidays. I also carry a tactical pen every day, even on board airplanes. Is there more I can do to defend myself and my family? I have use of only one functional arm and I realize I am at a serious disadvantage when it comes to physical fights. I take a Krav Maga class three days a week but the training there is lacking. Even watching about what Kelly McCann is talking about is a far better defense than the techniques I have been taught. Should I carry a large can of mace on my hip as well? My family is my wife and three children, all the kids are under the age of four. What advice can you give a stay at home father and where can these skills be learned? I no longer live in a big city so that might be a disadvantage to my learning.


#14

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Please know that these are simply my opinions, obviously and any insights and advice would be appreciated! I also realize this may not be the perfect thread, yet I started typing my response about knives and my post evolved to what it currently says.

Know that I do not ever want to get shot with any caliber of gun over being cut with any type of knife. Yet if someone does not know how to fight and they have a knife that is sharp, I would preferably try to defend the gun versus the knife everyday of the week, at any time of day. A gun has to be aimed and the person pulling the trigger has to have an idea of what is happening. A really sharp knife does not have to have any special skills applied. Cuts hurt a lot more and heal far slower than a bullet, I have been told.

A few years ago I purchased a Spyderco Civilian and I carry the knife with me every day [then I bought their sharpener and it became even more of a weapon]. I have full intention of buying a .380 shortly after or before the Christmas holidays. I also carry a tactical pen every day, even on board airplanes. Is there more I can do to defend myself and my family? I have use of only one functional arm and I realize I am at a serious disadvantage when it comes to physical fights. I take a Krav Maga class three days a week but the training there is lacking. Even watching about what Kelly McCann is talking about is a far better defense than the techniques I have been taught. Should I carry a large can of mace on my hip as well? My family is my wife and three children, all the kids are under the age of four. What advice can you give a stay at home father and where can these skills be learned? I no longer live in a big city so that might be a disadvantage to my learning.[/quote]

Sir,
Much respect to you for taking responsibility for you and your family’s safety and especially dealing with a physical limitation. From my own PERSONAL experience:

  1. Engaging someone with a firearm vs a knife is all a matter of distance, no matter whether they are trained or not, single shot pistols are rare out of the hunting world and I have never seen one used on the street. So, they will have multiple times to score a hit, regardless if they know what they are doing or not. Inside a crowded location: bar, bus terminal, airport terminal, doctors office, you may stand a chance of closing the distance, but, that is nothing to base you life on. Vacate the area if you can, live to fight another day. As far as whether a knife wound “hurts more” or heals slower than a gunshot, I never heard that before, I know, I have seen plenty of people shot, killed, and blew up, so I will take a knife any day vs a 7.62. Also, I going to post a picture of a knife wound I got courtesy of a LEO call, not to prove I am a bad ass to but to empathize, I never felt the slash until the perp was handcuffed. I have taken a round in the upper part part of my left shoulder (hit my armor) with no penetration and it hurt like hell, so, I would not count on a gunshot being more friendly than a knife wound.

  2. Buying a .380: I do not know the strength in your functioning arm, but, based on you training in KM, I am going to assume it is stronger than average. Do some research, I really don’t know why anyone would buy a sub caliber like a .380 , when you could upgrade to a 9mm, in the same sized frame. Based on may experience, a 9mm is a minimum caliber for defense. Of course, accuracy beats caliber every time, but, how accurate are most people in a combat situation, with stress narrowing everything down to just that danger facing you? Give your yourself every advantage and even consider the short frame Glock .45 for yourself. Also, when you arm yourself for protection, then you have to train with that firearm, so, ammo cost and availability are very important. 9mm and .45 auto are available everywhere at reduced cost. .380 is expensive a hell. Go to www.midwayusa.com and research ammo prices.

  3. As far as advising you on what martial art is the best for you, I cannot, because I do not know you physical limitations. However, saying that, if I was facing training with your unique set of circumstances, then I would lean toward the weapons arts, now, living outside of the city, I don’t think you are going to find many instructors, but, study the various knife/ stick arts and decide on a few basic moves(youtube, instructional videos) and practice them daily. In real life the basics work, whether clearing a house or defending yourself buying food. 3 to 5 solid skill moves will serve you well, forget the Jackie Chan stuff.

  1. I usually advise civilians to arm themselves with a reliable, functional, short barreled .12 gauge pump shotgun for home defense. With a few days of basic training, they have a reliable weapon with great stopping power and with the correct loads, safe to fire inside a dwelling without over penetration into another room. However, I would think a pump action is not suited for you and you will need to rely on a handgun. I would decide on my caliber of choice, obtain a carry license( your states law) and wear on a daily basis, even in your house. A weapon is no good locked in a drawer.

  2. My next option, would be to train your wife on the shotgun, or handguns. Its her responsibility to protect her family also. Since you are a stay at home dad, I would talk to her about “taking a shift” when she is home, besides, you will need some type of mental break from being there all day. If she is hesitate, then talk it out, I have a feeling she is a strong women based on your avatar and she is still with you:)), I guess, she could be your third wife…

  3. Money: Are surveillance systems a option? alarms? dogs? anything to give you an few seconds to respond. Example: a former SF guy I worked with moved out into a a rural area and bought 6 geese, you cannot get within 500 yards of his house without them screaming like some type of zombie horde.

  4. “Mace”: don’t have a lot of faith in its use, but, you can never go wrong with options. Pepper spray is better. Do some research and look into the pepper spray canisters they sell to hunters and hikers for bear protection. The only problem i see, (no knowledge here) is the legal aspects of using that level of concentration on a human. You kill some dipshit( not inside your home) but on the street, some DA may try to charge you , research this.

  5. 3 children under the age of 4? Stay at home dad? Good God.much respect:))

  6. There are many knowledge people here on the combat forum, never hesitate to ask anything. Someone will have some answers.


#15

One thing I forgot to add: Never take a “tactical pen” on an international flight. They are considered “offensive weapons” in most Middle East countries and you will be charged with “terrorism”. Also, if traveling in Europe, avoid France and the Netherlands, they are worse than the Arabs.


#16

idaho sir, please I have done nothing to earn your respect but regardless thank you for your kind words! I will try to respond to each of your points below.

[quote]idaho wrote:
Sir,
Much respect to you for taking responsibility for you and your family’s safety and especially dealing with a physical limitation. From my own PERSONAL experience:

  1. Engaging someone with a firearm vs a knife is all a matter of distance, no matter whether they are trained or not, single shot pistols are rare out of the hunting world and I have never seen one used on the street. So, they will have multiple times to score a hit, regardless if they know what they are doing or not. Inside a crowded location: bar, bus terminal, airport terminal, doctors office, you may stand a chance of closing the distance, but, that is nothing to base you life on. Vacate the area if you can, live to fight another day. As far as whether a knife wound “hurts more” or heals slower than a gunshot, I never heard that before, I know, I have seen plenty of people shot, killed, and blew up, so I will take a knife any day vs a 7.62. Also, I going to post a picture of a knife wound I got courtesy of a LEO call, not to prove I am a bad ass to but to empathize, I never felt the slash until the perp was handcuffed. I have taken a round in the upper part part of my left shoulder (hit my armor) with no penetration and it hurt like hell, so, I would not count on a gunshot being more friendly than a knife wound.[/quote]
    My opinion is just simply what I have been told by others. I too would take a knife over a 7.62, my example was referring to a smaller caliber like a .22 to a .32, so smaller rounds jajajaja. If I am ever in a crowded area, I will decide according to my gut at the time. It would be tough, I totally understand that. It is just hard for me not to defend those weaker than I am. I would much rather die defending innocent people compared to running away to fight another day. Please do not take that as I am against what you are trying to say. I no longer live in Phoenix so crime is not horrendous like where you lay your head at night. My deepest respect goes out to you idaho.

My cousin used to be an officer in Twin and that is the caliber of gun he recommended, that is seriously my only reason for deciding on that caliber. He said the risk of blow through was lower while still allowing adequate penetration and still allowing easier concealment compared to the larger guns. My assumption is that simply pulling a gun will work like the times I pulled my knife, in the past people would crap their pants while someone else called the cops. In my opinion, the best part was I was never charged, fined or anything. I simply told the truth, ?I had no idea what the guy was going to do so I pulled my weapon.? The largest blessing, I never had to kill someone with my knife. By the way, my one functional arm has been compared to an anaconda, from a retired CA officer ; )

[quote]idaho wrote: 3. As far as advising you on what martial art is the best for you, I cannot, because I do not know you physical limitations. However, saying that, if I was facing training with your unique set of circumstances, then I would lean toward the weapons arts, now, living outside of the city, I don’t think you are going to find many instructors, but, study the various knife/ stick arts and decide on a few basic moves(youtube, instructional videos) and practice them daily. In real life the basics work, whether clearing a house or defending yourself buying food. 3 to 5 solid skill moves will serve you well, forget the Jackie Chan stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_martial_arts[/quote]
My physical limitations really are lack of use from my Right arm and that is the end of my limits. I am tall at a little over six and a half inches tall and I weigh two hundred and twenty pounds. I have always had tight hamstrings but other than that I am very able bodied. I will take your advice and switch into the weapon art sill set. The only bad thing, I signed a contract for two years with the KM instructor but I might just tell him that he is not giving me adequate sparring and just general training, which is not what he told me I would get.

I have a new enhanced CCW permit, just no gun to go with it yet ; ) Instead of a pump, I could buy a used barrel for my automatic shotgun and load it will 00 buckshot. Thoughts? I will wear my gun of choice everywhere except bed. What do I do while sleeping? Our kids mind quite well but they are children. Do I spend $400 on a combination gun safe for the nightstand?

I am VERY blessed to be married to the beautiful woman who said ?yes? to me and GOD. Trust me, she gets very frustrated by my choices but she stays with me. And for your information, we have only been married to each other. Four days a week are spent with my kids while two other days I help my uncle and one day I volunteer at a homeless shelter. She is scared of guns but I think a fun day can be had with a .22 long rifle where we go out and shoot whistle pigs. If she says no to that, I will find a little .22 handgun and work up to the larger calibers ; )

We currently live in a small condominium. However I hope by the time number three is in my arms, we will be living out of the city on a few acres. I have an intact lab that lives with my uncle but labs are not really guard dogs, just lovers. He does bark though. The geese are an awesome idea. My lab is getting older, he will be ten years of age this spring but I will just make the dog freakin? mind and not kills the birds!

I am talking about the bear mace, the mace for bears and people is hardly different at all. The can I used to carry was the biggest / strongest can that was made at the time. I have been told that if I might very well be grilled by a DA, but my defense would never change. I have one functional arm and I felt that my families lives and or my life and or other people?s lives were being threatened.

My wife and I love each other, a lot and we wanted four children from the start. After four we will adopt more kids ; )

EVERYONE and anyone can bring information to the table. My head injuries do not always help but I can only try ; ) Thank you for the advice idaho! When you come back to the state of your screen name and you are in the capitol, it would be awesome to eat a grilled steak and sweet potatoes and maybe a cold beer or two with you, my treat. I am sure you have stories about life, even more than I do ; )

I have never been to other countries other than the ones in North and South America and flights to the Middle East are not really on my plate, neither is Europe or anywhere in the world. Now unless I can drive there, that is a potential vacation, but first I have to covert my rigs to bio-diesel jaa jaa jaa jaa!


#17

I forgot to add this idaho. Sir, can we compare scars? My doctor bills totaled over a million after my wreck in 2005! ; )


#18

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
I forgot to add this idaho. Sir, can we compare scars? My doctor bills totaled over a million after my wreck in 2005! ; )[/quote]

No, Bro you got me beat by a “million”. All I got is usual nicks and scratches. I have been very lucky when it comes to injuries, besides, no one has a right to complain compared to your injuries and the 22,000 plus soldiers, who have lost body parts. I recently met a JAG officer who lost his right leg below the knee and he is back on active duty. His story of rehab is humbling.I was able to volunteer a few days last year in the Warrior Games and to be around men and women competing in wheel chairs, artificial limbs, etc. What a humbling experience to be surrounded by such bravery and dedication. I try never to complain about having it rough since i still have both arms and legs:))

  1. Your choice if you want to stick with a .380, but, as far as “not blowing through”, that is primarily the choice of ammo used. A solid core of steel jacket .380 will “pass through” if it does not have a solid hit on bone. (a lot of Chek ammo is made in steel core because the Chek Scorpion machine pistol is a favorite European terrorist weapon.) Hollow point or fragile jacketed-based 9mm ammo (sold as “home defense rounds”) have a good record in breaking up in the body. You can buy a 9mm in the same size frame as a .380. However, personal defense is simply that, personal. Use what you are confident in and will train with.

  2. “pulling a gun or knife”. Yes, it can be frightening or intimidating to people, but, let me caution you: not everyone is going to retreat: individuals with experience in violence will just react to either their training or their past history, so my rule is, if I “pull” I have already commented to “using”, so, its up to the bad guy to decide which way it will go. My commitment was made or I would not have “pulled”.

  3. “00 Buck”": IMO, is a poor choice load for home defense. “00 Buck” is (or the load I have used) is 9 pellets, .32 in caliber, so, if would be like firing a .32 auto nine times in your house. The whole purpose of using a shotgun is to limit penetration, so, a stray round would not enter the child’s bedroom. IMO, shot size should be limited to 6, 7, 8, since the pattern is tight at 8 to 12 feet (room size) and then spreads. The small sized shot will kill up close but lack consistency on walls.

  4. Wife: A firearm is a mechanical device, nothing more, nothing less. The operator bears all the responsibility for its use, just like driving your car. Accidental discharge or drunk driving are both examples of poor disciple and immaturity. There is nothing evil about a firearm, its just a tool for a job. Debunk the “I don’t like guns” Take her to a firearms range, let her train safety, Didn’t she take a driver’s ed to get a license? tell her its no different. or you could always tell her that training in firearms may be the only defense between her a child predator.

  5. I hope I didn’t give you the impression of advising you to stop your KM training. Anything you can learn or train is good for you, besides, a lot of empty hand techniques can be adapted to weapons strikes. Punch with the fist or punch with a “punch dagger” is still basically the same move.

  6. Gun safes are great for storing guns against theft, worthless in a home invasion, attack, etc . Under a high stress situation you will not have time to open a safe, grab a gun and return fire. I have hit enough houses, camel palaces, etc to know that speed is on the side of the assaulter . Now there are things you can do, your children are still very young and probably lack the strength to operate a slide on a pistol, if it would make you more comfortable, you could have a full magazine and no round in chamber, or the magazine out with the slide locked back, since their thumbs would be too short to activate the slide stop. Or, you could either buy or make a holster that attaches to the bed frame, slow and takes a lot of practice to master. Since your children are young, and really short, the simple solution for you is just to place the handgun up above their reach. Whatever you decide to do, practice!. I have been on many entries to get some really bad guys, and they could not wake up fast enough to live.

  7. Thank you for the kind offer of dinner. I actually don’t live in Idaho, my screen name is from the DUNE character “Duncan Idaho”, the Ginaz trained Swordmaster and one of my childhood hero’s:)). He was the inspiration that set me on a life of martial arts. Maybe we will meet over a beer one day, I actually have met some people I have known in some really remote locations, so it is certainly possible.

  8. Keep us apprised of your defensive upgrades.


#19

Again, I shall address your points below. Why cannot more people respond with simple point by point replies? Even if the numbers were all off ; ), the points are still addressed. Just flipping you crap, please take it as a joke, that is how it was intended!

Nah, I am just fascinated with scars and the healing process, along with the stories behind them. In regards to the women and men of our military who have given their limbs in service, my heart and deepest respect go out to them. They did something far more courageous than I! My wreck was my own stupid fault and my own choice. Sure I can partially blame the girl not paying attention but I made the choice to throw my leg over a bike and ride on the open road. Not so with veterans. Deep, nearly the deepest respect to them.

You are correct about the ammo. I talked with my KM instructor and he is in perfect parallel with what you are saying. Though another question would be, can I carry a forty-five and adequately conceal the weapon? My cousin was in the Twin SWAT and he told me about how a down jacket could stop a hollow-point so I am sure that I will be going the full metal jacket round. I realize the round may might hurt like a mother, nut if I make the choice to pull a trigger on someone, I do not want to question if the round will stop them. I am paranoid about people on meth and crap. I do not know why, I am just scared by what people are willing to do these days.

The two times I have had to pull my knife I was fully intending to unzip the childish boys. Yet I am incredibly fortunate they lacked any spine and they were simply posturing. One guy really surprised me by coming straight at me with his forearm across my throat. I was literally ready to spill his guts and had my knife unfolded as his girlfriend screamed ?Knife!? and he hit the stop button. I know now what I should have done but I was ready to take him out of this world and I do not mean that lightly.

Literally something I read and the author made some points. Most likely I will be loading the shotgun with dove shot and over penetration is moot.

I will be using your points to discuss this with her. The scariest point, she is a teacher and they practice drills at the school where she taught in Phoenix dealing with people that came into the school looking to hurt the kids. She carried a can of mace for six months but then took it out. It is hard when some women do not listen to logic or reason ; )

Far from it idaho sir, I am just frustrated by the lack of functional training. When I was in a Brazilian jujitsu club, I rolled on the mat from the very beginning. In kickboxing it was the same. Currently we hash the same beginning steps every single time one person is new. I want to go to bed not just tired but sore because of a bruise or two. Pain is awesome in my mind. As a slight side note, my brachial plexus avulsion hurts more than anything I have ever experienced and the pain only goes to sleep if I can sleep. Make something other than my dead arm hurt, please ; )

My .357 is in a high place now so I think you are correct and I am simply over thinking things and making the issue more complicated. Your comment about camel palaces made me literally giggle out loud ; )

You strike me as a very honest, no bs man and the least I can do for someone wasting time as they rattle things off to me is buy and grill a nice tri tip ; )

For sure and again, thank you sir for your advice.


#20

“You are correct about the ammo. I talked with my KM instructor and he is in perfect parallel with what you are saying. Though another question would be, can I carry a forty-five and adequately conceal the weapon? My cousin was in the Twin SWAT and he told me about how a down jacket could stop a hollow-point so I am sure that I will be going the full metal jacket round. I realize the round may might hurt like a mother, nut if I make the choice to pull a trigger on someone, I do not want to question if the round will stop them. I am paranoid about people on meth and crap. I do not know why, I am just scared by what people are willing to do these days”

  1. yes, you can carry and conceal a .45 or 9mm easily. I am going to post pictures of a Glock model 30 (45 auto) and a model 26 (9mm), as you can see they are very small. However, another caution based on my experience: There is a severe trade off in carrying very small handguns, they actually require more training and a very steady stance to be anywhere near the combat accuracy you need. You hand size is very important, someone with small to medium hands will do ok, but, a larger person will have difficulty in obtaining a proper grip if half your fingers are below the magazine well. If you have access to an indoor range that rents handguns, get a snub nosed revolver or small .380 like a Walther and a full sized Glock like a model 17, and run your own experiments. Handguns are a lot like clothes, the best ones are the ones that fit.

Glock Model 30. .45 ACP