Kirk Cameron, YOU FAIL

[quote]Mzhickteno wrote:

I also do believe that evolution and a higher power are not mutually exclusive ideas.

x2

[/quote]

Where does the bible say that the earth is flat, or that the sun revolves around it?

“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

I couldn’t find the earth is flat, but something on it being stuck in one place and unmoving, so the sun must revolve around it. What it does do is provide a handy price list for a virgin. I think the point was that the bible makes many indefensible statements, do bible literalists believe in these statements too?

I don’t get it, didn’t he just show that humans evolved to eat bananas?

Didnt this guy make the Terminator movies?

[quote]OrcusDM wrote:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

I couldn’t find the earth is flat, but something on it being stuck in one place and unmoving, so the sun must revolve around it. What it does do is provide a handy price list for a virgin. I think the point was that the bible makes many indefensible statements, do bible literalists believe in these statements too?[/quote]

What does this prove at all?

Customs were much different back then, you didn’t have sex before marriage in some cultures, it just wasn’t really allowed.

A guys sleeps with a virgin that he isn’t married to and has to pay a price, is that so different from how middle eastern cultures view things?

I still want to see verses about the earth being flat and the sun revolving around it.

[quote]OrcusDM wrote:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

I couldn’t find the earth is flat, but something on it being stuck in one place and unmoving, so the sun must revolve around it. What it does do is provide a handy price list for a virgin. I think the point was that the bible makes many indefensible statements, do bible literalists believe in these statements too?[/quote]

I don’t think the bible ever comments on the earth being flat or the sun revolving around the earth. That was, IIRC a view put forth by certain clerics and writers during the middle ages and assiduously defended by the papacy.

That quotation pertains to Jewish law. I’ve never understood why Christians look to the old testament for guidance/belief. Wasn’t Christ’s coming supposed to free them all from that? As a historical read on were the Judaic-Christian beliefs came from I can see it’s relevancy, but to give it the same credence as Christ’s teachings is a mindfuck. All of course IMHO.

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
OrcusDM wrote:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

I couldn’t find the earth is flat, but something on it being stuck in one place and unmoving, so the sun must revolve around it. What it does do is provide a handy price list for a virgin. I think the point was that the bible makes many indefensible statements, do bible literalists believe in these statements too?

What does this prove at all?

Customs were much different back then, you didn’t have sex before marriage in some cultures, it just wasn’t really allowed.

A guys sleeps with a virgin that he isn’t married to and has to pay a price, is that so different from how middle eastern cultures view things?

I still want to see verses about the earth being flat and the sun revolving around it.[/quote]

By your reasoning:
“Traditions were different 2000 years ago as well, so what Jesus said is irrelevant.”

As for the earth is still (and so the sun must revolve around it):
“He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.”
“The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.”
“The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.”
would be the quotes that are relevant. The bits about the world being flat actually talk about “the ends of the earth” and the “four corners of the earth”, which are sayings, so I’d disregard them.

[quote]fireflyz wrote:
OrcusDM wrote:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

I couldn’t find the earth is flat, but something on it being stuck in one place and unmoving, so the sun must revolve around it. What it does do is provide a handy price list for a virgin. I think the point was that the bible makes many indefensible statements, do bible literalists believe in these statements too?

I don’t think the bible ever comments on the earth being flat or the sun revolving around the earth. That was, IIRC a view put forth by certain clerics and writers during the middle ages and assiduously defended by the papacy.

That quotation pertains to Jewish law. I’ve never understood why Christians look to the old testament for guidance/belief. Wasn’t Christ’s coming supposed to free them all from that? As a historical read on were the Judaic-Christian beliefs came from I can see it’s relevancy, but to give it the same credence as Christ’s teachings is a mindfuck. All of course IMHO.[/quote]

You can’t pick and choose bits of the bible. If you do that, you accept that there is an external morality which you’re applying, which negates the need for a bible. You also question the accuracy or validity of the book as a religious guide. You do that, then who’s to say the bits about Jesus aren’t made up or invalid? Either the whole lot is canon, or any bit you wanna use needs back up.

[quote]fireflyz wrote:
OrcusDM wrote:
“If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.” (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

I couldn’t find the earth is flat, but something on it being stuck in one place and unmoving, so the sun must revolve around it. What it does do is provide a handy price list for a virgin. I think the point was that the bible makes many indefensible statements, do bible literalists believe in these statements too?

I don’t think the bible ever comments on the earth being flat or the sun revolving around the earth. That was, IIRC a view put forth by certain clerics and writers during the middle ages and assiduously defended by the papacy.

That quotation pertains to Jewish law. I’ve never understood why Christians look to the old testament for guidance/belief. Wasn’t Christ’s coming supposed to free them all from that? As a historical read on were the Judaic-Christian beliefs came from I can see it’s relevancy, but to give it the same credence as Christ’s teachings is a mindfuck. All of course IMHO.[/quote]

The model of a geocentric universe was originally put forth by the scientific/philosophic community and embraced and perpetuated by guys like Aristotle. The church then adopted the scientific model.

People seem to forget that the scientific community many times resists and puts down new theories as much as religion does.

And no, according to Christianity, Christ did not break the old testament teachings, but fulfilled them. So the prophecies the Christ was supposed to fulfill would be pertinent to the religion.

In addition the Catholic churches denouncement of the Copernicus model essentially ended in the 1620s, not that long after Galileo came out with his theories. Also donâ??t forget that Galileo was devout roman catholic.

People are under the impression that religion and the religious are so scientifically backward, and it just isnâ??t true. Regardless of what the media tells you Catholics stopped officially believing in a geocentric universe about the same time astronomers did.

I canâ??t stand the way Catholics get treated, and I hate Catholicism.

[quote]Chrysalis wrote:
I have not seen the Kirk Cameron video referenced, but these evolutionism vs creationism threads always get very heated.

What really blows my mind is that other “facts” from the Bible are no longer disputed as false, yet creationism and Biblical literalism are still so hotly defended.

For example, the Bible states that the Earth is flat. Scientists who posited that the earth is a sphere were excommunicated. Do Biblical literalists still believe the Earth is flat?

The Bible also unequivocally states that the sun revolves around the Earth; the earth is the center of the Universe. Copernicus and Galileo were excommunicated for proving otherwise. Do the Biblical literalists still believe that the Earth is the center of the universe and that the solar system revolves around the Earth rather than the sun?

[/quote]

I’m going to have to ask you to show the references…and references to “the four corners of the earth” don’t count because that’s an expression we still use today. I’ve never heard of this.

I think you are confusing the Medieval Catholic Church’s rules with the Bible.

on a very related note, I’m listening to some very kickass organ music at the local coffee shop as I type this. It’s like phantom of the opera meets Iron Butterfly meets the Doors meets the Matrix.

Nope, it’s DJ Shadow apparently.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Nope, it’s DJ Shadow apparently.[/quote]

Good stuff, that.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
Chrysalis wrote:
I have not seen the Kirk Cameron video referenced, but these evolutionism vs creationism threads always get very heated.

What really blows my mind is that other “facts” from the Bible are no longer disputed as false, yet creationism and Biblical literalism are still so hotly defended.

For example, the Bible states that the Earth is flat. Scientists who posited that the earth is a sphere were excommunicated. Do Biblical literalists still believe the Earth is flat?

The Bible also unequivocally states that the sun revolves around the Earth; the earth is the center of the Universe. Copernicus and Galileo were excommunicated for proving otherwise. Do the Biblical literalists still believe that the Earth is the center of the universe and that the solar system revolves around the Earth rather than the sun?

I’m going to have to ask you to show the references…and references to “the four corners of the earth” don’t count because that’s an expression we still use today. I’ve never heard of this.

There are none.

There is nothing more absurd, ironic and hypocritical than folks who don’t know the Bible spouting off as if they do, perpetuating hear-say while condemning so called biblical mythology.[/quote]

Agreed. They are so bent on attacking it, any crap they hear through word of mouth that allows them to hate it more somehow becomes fact.

The earth is flat as a bible verse? I doubt he even heard this about the bible from anywhere.

[quote]FrozenNinja wrote:
Everyone has their own opinions…creationists get hated on all day everyday…why can’t people just believe what they believe and just take other peoples beileifs as a opinionated desicion?[/quote]

My parents raised me with religious freedom(they wanted me to learn and decide what I believe), they were both raised(forced) into Islam in Iranian schools as children. The majority of my friends are catholic but I get a bit of everything. I claim Islam for cultural purposes, but I’m non practicing at best. I do not believe in evolution, because to say I believe would be denying that evolution is fact… therefore I accept fact just as 2+2 = 4. As far as the idea of God I am agnostic because god can sadly not be disproven… and I have always struggled with that idea. Religious freedom and the idea that everyone has a right to their own belief system is something that for lack of a better phrase is important. The only problem I have with your statement is creationists are suddenly the victims, when everyone I’ve met including myself have never had a religion or idea forced down their throat more so then Christianity, creation, and intelligent design. The fact that intelligent design almost found its way into public schools makes me sick.

/rant

I apologize if I just went way off topic, precede to flame

Let me quote Kirk Cameron here in reference to the NEW “Origin of Species” book he’s giving away…

“All we want to do is present the opposing and CORRECT view rather than being censored, which is exactly the case at present. These students aren’t stupid, they should be allowed to make up their own minds right? We think that’s HEALTHY.”

So Kirk… Let me get this straight. It’s healthy to examine both sides of the argument, but if we DON’T choose the creationism side then were going to hell?

…Fuck you.

Marko

Hmmm… Does Darwin tell us how to eat?..