Kinks for Butt Wink

But they are allowed and some people squat more in them, so what’s the big deal? Personally, I have a hard time squatting to depth in flat shoes and my technique is much better with heeled shoes so that’s what I use. We are training for a specific sport where the objective is to lift the most weight possible, not some sort of “functional training” that will improve performance in something totally unrelated to lifting a barbell. It’s like saying that arching in the bench press masks other issues, maybe so but if it allows you to bench more then why not? There is just no point in buying expensive shoes to squat in if you can’t even squat to begin with, nowadays squat shoes are mostly around $200.

I see no reason to advocate for a thumbless grip across the board. I switched to a thumbless grip because I was having wrist and arm pain, it felt unstable at first but I had no choice if I wanted to keep squatting with a bar on my back. It seems like that you shouldn’t so unless it’s necessary. And by the way, Rippetoe says you should keep your elbows up for some strange reason.

As for quads, Greg Nuckols has an article titled “Squats are not Hip Dominant or Knee Dominant”. I suggest you guys take a look. One thing though, in Stuart McGill’s book “Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance” he provides EMG data which shows that what he refers to as the “Westside squat” actually uses much more glutes and hamstrings and not a whole lot of quads. But unless you are doing wide stance box squats or your technique looks like Chuck Vogelpohl’s, it’s unlikely that you can perform a raw squat in that manner.

Long femurs + short torso - heeled shoes = lots of forward lean if you are going to squat to depth. Its not ideal for everyone.

Louie also says that you shouldn’t squat below parallel. There is a YouTube video where he actually says this. Westside methods may work, but you can’t follow Louie word for word and expect your lifts to pass just anywhere.

So I guess in the future I’ll take your word over Louie’s.

Suuuuuuuuuuuure!

Well I don’t compete because my strength (especially squat) is abyssmal, but I want to compete, hence the post in this category. Right now im about 160lbs (5’10") and slowly gaining. Aiming to try get to the 181-sub 200 class.

Ive been training for about a year, but not much considerable progress. I have made some slow gains with a Dan John program, but it was all about ‘greasing the groove’ so I think I reinforced the butt wink technique. Honestly I’d love to be able to find a solid guide for a competition-legal squt that would suit me. I think you guys ended up recommendeding wider stance w/ a more upright torso? This was more or less what I figured out worked better from some trial and error. I was only asking about Rip because there’s a lot of detailed coaching for his squat style.

Google - "How to skwaat with ed coan

Thank me later

Thanks for the help. Ill look it up

Ok, so squat high and get red lights then.

Without seeing you squat it’s impossible to tell if you should go wider or narrower or whatever, it depends on your proportions and hip structure. Any basic guidelines will have to be adjusted so that it works for you.

As for butt wink, is your back actually going into flexion or are you overextending your spine and it’s going to neutral as you descend? The former is an injury risk, while the latter is just inefficient technique but not half as dangerous. Again, you need to post a video if you want any useful advice. Otherwise just watch some youtube videos (from good powerlifters or powerlifting coaches) and see what works for you. Also, the high bar squat is somewhat easier to learn to perform correctly, which is why Sheiko has said that he gets beginners to start with the high bar squat. You can start with low bar of course, but if your technique is fucked up and you don’t have anyone to help you out then it might not be the best solution.

How do you guys usually post videos? The forum doesnt let me post from my phone :frowning: today i did some goblet squats, then high bar and they looked really good to me.

Also, on low bar the ‘butt wink’ is isually the lumbar going from extension into flexion, which is not good (duh). On high bar, goblet and front it’s extension into neutral

As far as I know you have to upload it to youtube and then link it here, I think there are some other video sites that work too.

When your starts to go into flexion, are you at parallel or below? If so, then just stop going so deep. If not, then you might have some issues with flexibility and are compensating for that by allowing your back to round rather than going into deeper hip flexion. Personally, I have somewhat tight hips so what I do is on days that I don’t squat I stretch by holding onto something (usually a doorknob) and dropping into a full squat and holding that position for 30 seconds. With my back neutral. I do that 3 times, I used to do it 5 or more times but my flexibility seems to have improved since then. Improving ankle dorsiflexion simply means that your knees will travel further forward, which can be dangerous past a certain point but it also means that your squat ROM will be longer.

Other than that, learn to brace properly. Plenty of youtube videos cover that, Chris Duffin in particular has some good ones. If you are bracing properly then your back should not flex.

Heres a video of me doing unloaded low bar squats:

And heres high bar

I hope these videos are clear enough

You’re about 6 inches below parallel in the low bar one. Just don’t go so low, it’s that simple. Widening your stance will limit your range of motion, so maybe try playing around with that. You only need to go slightly below parallel, you don’t get bonus points or going any deeper. In both videos you extend your lower back way too much, I don’t think it’s an injury risk as long as you don’t extend too far but it’s an inefficient movement pattern. Try to stop doing that too.

Thanks so much for the tips. I might start squatting to a box until i get used to where parallell actually is. Thanks for the tip with the extension too, hoping i can get my squat form clear again

Can we all agree to stop trying to squat ATG? LOL. Between the fucked up IPF judging and the OL nutlicker trolls, beginners are coming into this sport thinking they have to leave skidmarks on the platform. Most judges look for the crease of the singlet/suit to be lower than the top of the knee or kneecap dependng on the federation. Once your form is on point you can then play around based on judging. What I do is observe the judging of the lifters before me. If the judging is loose, I’ll squat wider. If the judging is tight, i’ll bring the stance in a bit. Another reason why you should squat with varying stances in training.

  1. Regarding using the box - DO NOT. I found that box squats will help you once your form is good enough to not get fucked up by changing the movement pattern. You’re not close to that yet.

  2. STOP squatting in front of a mirror. To begin with it makes you seem higher than you are due to angle of view. Next you never learn to feel your way into position like you need to be able to do to compete. If you have no choice but to use racks with mirrors in front of them, bring a sheet and some duct tape to the gym with you.

Finally hi-bar or low bar is going to come down to what allows YOU to lift the most weight. Sure the great majority squat low bar but there have been some hi bar squatters (Doug Furnas, John Kuc) who have been successful squatters.

I think it’s mostly youtube commentators pushing this ATG bullshit, IPF is strict but not that extreme. I was told by an international-level IPF judge at the rules meeting at a meet that proper depth is the hip crease going below top of your knee, and he specifically said “no, not the top of your kneecap”. You wouldn’t be able to see a lifter’s kneecap anyway. There is no fed with more strict judging than the IPF so there is no reason to try to squat deeper than their requirements, especially if it is putting you at risk for injury.

I’m not sure about box squatting to fix this, what I would do is simply record all sets and try to cut your squat higher. Try to extend you back (or keep it extended as you do) slightly as you descend, that will limit your range of motion. It’s hard to say what is the cause and effect because your back rounds because you squat too deep and you squat too deep because your back rounds so just try to stop both.

Pause squats might help, they will get you used to the bottom position. Just don’t replace regular squats with pause squats. I have heard of people using a box with beginners to give them a target to sit down on, but that’s usually with people who have a hard time hitting depth to start with.

IPF not that extreme? Shall I send you something to wipe your chin?

The trick with squat depth is to find a combination of bar position, foot position/angle, knee turnout which together enable you to drop to the desired depth without thinking. Once this is achieved you will drop down to the bottom and your bottom will be right at the desired depth.

If you’re feeling for the hole and trying to “cut your squat higher” then you’re not focusing on producing force. I know pause squats are advocated by many, but they basically teach you to feel for the hole.