T Nation

Kids Throwing Rocks at US Troops


A powerful video of Iraqi kids tossing rocks at a US convoy. You guys managed to alienate even small children. Keep up the good work!

One where bored US soldiers give a 1$ bounty to the winner of an improvised kiddie death match.

And footage of Americans beating the hell out of Iraqi kids and teenagers.

Anyone wondering why you're not exactly popular?


Let`s see..., foreign troops in your country doing what the hell they want to do..kill,humiliate,etc..hmmmm.

I`d throw hand-grenades at them.

Oh yes they dethroned a dictator, but replaced with
total chaos , whatever happened to the "we just go there to get rid of Saddam and then we come back"?

Then again who was so stupid to believe that?


I read this on Belmont Club this weekend,and I think there's at least something to it - it's related to the concept of why the U.S. hasn't seen more success, and it's based on expectations - a concept very close to the heart of someone who follows markets such as myself:


[i]My own favorite theory of why Radical Islam attacked America on 9/11 -- and it is purely my own wild blue yonder speculation -- is that subconsciously Bin Laden wanted America to save it. And I think, though I may be wrong in this, that many Muslims secretly thought the same way.

What disappointed many Iraqis shortly after Saddam fell was that the Americans, despite their technological wizardry and money didn't have a magic wand that would make everything right. Instead they came with this horrifying message. "The dictator is gone; you're on your own. You're free." You couldn't have chosen a message more designed to disillusion.

What many expected and wanted was Paradise in exchange for Submission. The trouble with all the Saddams, Nassers and Abu Nidals was that they couldn't provide the Paradise part. They could demand submission through their secret police alright, but those who wanted Paradise would have to await it from Allah. That left two alternatives: to invoke Allah's Paradise by pleasing him with a torrent of blood, hence the Jihad; or get the richest country in the world to conquer them and wave its infidel, but potent magic wand over the barreness. Allah or the Jinn but the Jinn did not grant three wishes.

I think the Muslim world knows it has a problem. It is aware its civilization is in crisis. But it has lost the confidence to resolve it by itself. That despair is why every solution that Middle Eastern radicals -- and its Western Leftist enablers -- have to offer is extremist and bizarre. It always has the tinge of the apocalyptic and the impractical.

How shall Palestine be saved, for example? By the destruction of Israel. In the meantime they can all wait around, skip school, let the roads go to pot, shoot their doctors in the legs, attack UN teachers, burn their green houses, expel their scientists, kidnap their friends. Trash their surroundings and pervert and degrade themselves. But on the Day of Reckoning, all those blemishes will be smoothed out. The trash will collect itself because on the day Israel falls, there will be dancing in the streets, food will appear on tables, cell phones and gadgets will pour in from the somewhere that non Muslims make them. Think of the ending to Star Wars after the Death Star has been destroyed, except the party goes on forever after the credits.

But that kind of magic is forbidden to humans by God. Or Reality, the Creator or History if you prefer. Humans are cursed with freedom. Man's daily bread and deliverance from evil comes is his responsibility. Has been, since he was driven from the Garden.

They expected magic from America and got the offer of freedom. And yet I think the Muslims may luck out because America has nothing else to give them. And may find it within themselves yet, for the nature of this gift is that it cannot truly be given, through the process of working out their problems in the face of attacks from al-Qaeda and the discouragement of the entire Sophisticated Western World Ideology. What's striking about many of the "sophisticated" recommendations for Iraq is that they recommend anything but freedom. Sophisticates would give the Middle colonialism, theocracy or even totalitarianism first. Even return Saddam if it were possible. Cut a deal with every dictator in the region and divide up the carcass of Iraq among the strongmen. But work with them to learn freedom, never.

Well that's my theory. I know it's a crock, but hey, it's a weekend.[/i]




To state it another way vroom, it's a very plausible hypothesis if one takes into account expectations. Peoples' (and animals') reactions to unmet expectations are quite interesting, and often completely irrational. For instance, take the experiment with mice running on treadmills. Experimenters gave the mice rewards for running on the treadmill, and then removed them. Prior to the rewards, the mice ran on the treadmills - some more than others. They obviously had some sort of benefit from it -- they liked it.

However, even mice who liked to run on the treadmill prior to the rewards stopped running after the rewards were removed -- they had been trained to expect a reward, those expectations were unmet, and so they stopped the activity. People are much more intelligent - Imagine how much more irrational people with unmet expectations can be. If you think really hard, perhaps you could even conceive of some examples...


And, let me get this straight, you think the expectation of people in the Middle East is that the USA will make everything perfect for Muslims?


What fucking planet are you from?


No -- the expectation was for instant improvement in quality of life if the U.S. took control -- based on viewing the QOL in the U.S. (or at least its portrayal on TV and in other media). It's not such a foreign concept from everyday experience: If I would just get this particular thing, life would be better. From a certain perspective: If I would just marry this guy, life would be better. If we would just have a kid, life would be better. Surely you're not unfamiliar with that expectation? How does that work out if there's a serious deficit between expectation and reality?


Why is it so outlandish that much of the tension in Iraq specifically, and the entire ME generally, stems from the fact that they - the average Mohammad Arab - are now realizing that the U.S. can't "make it all better" by themselves? That the U.S. - the nation that can seemingly do anything - can't fix their problems?

It's a theory I had never heard before, so I don't have much of an opinion on it yet, but I don't think it's so ridiculous that it deserves to be thrown out without consideration.


Your ability to buy just about any line of bullshit is astounding.


Tis a crying shame we can't get guys like you to grab a pair and throw grenades at us. We'd be able to clean Iraq up a lot quicker if our enemies would face us.



The guy is a little eccentric, but Biden proves that they're after our guns. I'd like to consider myself a reasonable guy. I can actually get behind the idea of having mental health be a part of a background check. Problem is that they are just going to keep loosening up the idea of what makes you mentally ill.


EDIT: Whoops, wrong thread. My mistake.


They are enjoying their new found freedom. The old Iraqi army would have just shot them and jailed the families until a bribe was paid.

Why does everyone fall for disinformation and propaganda so easily? Want to bet there are many more incidents of Iraqi kids running up to US troops for candy. Consider the source. Wanting to believe someting leaves you open to poor judgement. Some count on it.


FYI the last video does not show Americans beating Iraqis, those are Iraqis beating Iraqis.


This is the most ridiculous theory EVER!

What disappointed Iraqis was bombing the shit out of their country, occupying it, and creating a situation that predictably drew in Islamists from all around the world. Remember that four years ago, you obliterated Baghdad, killing more than your fair share of innocents. Did you really think the relatives of the dead ones will forget?

I'd consider your expectation theory if you can provide examples of post-WWII countries where your intervention "made everything right". Until then, think about how you "saved" Haiti, Nicaragua, or Somalia.


Hmmm...is that a threat? I can see the slogan already "Finish off the Finnish"!

P.S: If those Iraqi kids in the 1st video had grenades, I'm guessing they'll be using them out instead of rocks.


WTF? Since when is throwing rocks out on vehicles a freedom? Get real! They're simply pissed at the occupier.

How's a video shot and posted by US soldiers disinformation?

I'm in! US troops distribute a lot more bullets than they do hand out candy.


I had no idea. The guy filming is distinctly American though, and since he's cheering the beaters I assumed too fast.

You'd think someone would have reported the misleading title on YouTube. Wait, someone's saying they're Brits.



I was mocking your pathetic anti-American rant. Please spare me the "me no understand" diversion. Your lack of humor is boring.

Always good to know what the Islamic internet Jihad thinks. Good for a chuckle at least. How's that working out for you on the US bodybuilding site? Any converts yet? Do you at least get any work out tips while your plastering T-Nation with your crap? 1700 posts, nearly all in the political forum...fascinating.

Too funny. Always pathetic but entertaining at least.


Anybody wonder why Saddam Hussein wasn't exactly popular? Anybody wonder what's going to happen when the Kurds south of Turkey and east of Iraq try to claim their own land? Anybody wonder why Shia muslims want US troops to stay as occupiers in Iraq?

Anybodyd wonder why Turkey is bolstering its forces in the south? Anybody wonder what Iran's intentions are when US forces leave Iraq? Anybody take into account the resources and abilities of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon against a nuclear Iran?

Anybody wonder why Sweden sits back and does nothing and lets the US face the whole middle eastern region in order to preserve Western culture and tradition? Get a clue buddy.

You keep holding candles, marching in protests, and watching videos on youtube from your laptop and let those of us who have actually been to the middle east, taken the time to learn the langauage and the culture, trained alongside and fought against Arabs do the thinking for you.


And somehow your radical Islamic friends have managed to alienate the world agaisnt your religion and Arbs in particular.

I suggest you work hard to fix your own house so the US doesn't have to.

I feel sorry for the millions of good people that are now treated with suspicion because of people like you that continue to treat every situation with your bigotry.