T Nation

Kidnapped Iraqi Archbishop Dead

[quote]lixy wrote:
The mistake you are making, is underestimate the drive and motivation of a people who perceive you as occupiers. I said it before and will say it again: As long as there is an Iraqi standing, your troops will be shot at. It’s simple really. You may do the same if some foreigners were patrolling your streets and jailing, torturing or killing your people.[/quote]

Please refer back to my “collectively could not pour piss out of a boot” statement.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
The BBC’s Hugh Sykes in Baghdad says centuries of peaceful coexistence between Muslims and the small Christian community in Iraq were shattered by the US-led invasion of 2003.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7295672.stm

Because Americans forced them to fight?

Do Muslims have to be ruled with an iron fist to stop them from brutalizing infidels? Is that your point?

Like it or not, the invasion of Iraq by the United States boosted radical Islamist movements. It maybe due to a president who claims to be doing “God’s work” or that a good chunk of the American military is Christian, but that particular war was largely perceived as some sort of crusade. The situation in the Occupied Territories and Washington’s rhetoric towards Tehran didn’t help either.

If Israel invaded the USA tomorrow, you can be sure that plenty of your compatriots will start torching synagogues and that fundamentalism will rise. If Tunisia bombed and invaded your land, a lot of Americans will start lashing out at Muslims, no matter how much you think your country is homogeneous.

The point is that this death, and so many others, is attributable to the US invasion of Iraq. And trust me, your country is yet to suffer backlashes from that gratuitous act of violence.[/quote]

Saddam killed countless thousands and would continue to do so if we didn’t kick his ass out.

The US is not kidnapping and murdering innocents. Your terrorist heros are.

Blaming the US is ridiculous. Blame the scum that are actually perpetrating the crimes.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Saddam killed countless thousands and would continue to do so if we didn’t kick his ass out. [/quote]

True. Bush killed countless thousands too.

Tell that to the Iraqis who lost children, parents, brothers and loved ones. See if they lay part of the blame on the US.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Saddam killed countless thousands and would continue to do so if we didn’t kick his ass out.

True. Bush killed countless thousands too.

Blaming the US is ridiculous. Blame the scum that are actually perpetrating the crimes.

Tell that to the Iraqis who lost children, parents, brothers and loved ones. See if they lay part of the blame on the US.[/quote]

Since half the country thought the US was justified in invading them it is pretty telling that they thought Saddam was pretty fucking bad.

I am sure that the people that have loved ones being killed are blaming the killers themselves.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
The BBC’s Hugh Sykes in Baghdad says centuries of peaceful coexistence between Muslims and the small Christian community in Iraq were shattered by the US-led invasion of 2003.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7295672.stm

Because Americans forced them to fight?

Do Muslims have to be ruled with an iron fist to stop them from brutalizing infidels? Is that your point?[/quote]

That certainly seems to be the case.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
The BBC’s Hugh Sykes in Baghdad says centuries of peaceful coexistence between Muslims and the small Christian community in Iraq were shattered by the US-led invasion of 2003.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7295672.stm

Because Americans forced them to fight?

Do Muslims have to be ruled with an iron fist to stop them from brutalizing infidels? Is that your point?

Like it or not, the invasion of Iraq by the United States boosted radical Islamist movements. It maybe due to a president who claims to be doing “God’s work” or that a good chunk of the American military is Christian, but that particular war was largely perceived as some sort of crusade. The situation in the Occupied Territories and Washington’s rhetoric towards Tehran didn’t help either.

If Israel invaded the USA tomorrow, you can be sure that plenty of your compatriots will start torching synagogues and that fundamentalism will rise. If Tunisia bombed and invaded your land, a lot of Americans will start lashing out at Muslims, no matter how much you think your country is homogeneous.

The point is that this death, and so many others, is attributable to the US invasion of Iraq. And trust me, your country is yet to suffer backlashes from that gratuitous act of violence.[/quote]

Is that a promise or a threat?

I didn’t read where Americans kidnapped the archbishop can you please point that out in the article? Wasn’t it islamic “insurgents” that did it? Or are they completely absolved of any sin what so ever because Americans are there? Nice logic. Typical…Here’s the first clue in to solving the issues islam is faced with. Culpability. The responsibility for your own actions. Blaming others for the actions your brothers do may make you feel warm and fuzzy, but it condones the behaviour and perpetuates the issues. It has pretty much come down to this, most non-muslims, don’t trust islam or muslims in general. This ain’t just America, this is world wide. You want backlash? Shit, it has not yet begun. How many more attacks do you really think the world will tolerate before you get a severe anti-muslim backlash.
People are getting sick of the attacks and even more sick of the excuses.

[quote]lixy wrote:

The point is that this death, and so many others, is attributable to the US invasion of Iraq. And trust me, your country is yet to suffer backlashes from that gratuitous act of violence.[/quote]

This death is directly attributable to the degenerate barbarians that ambushed and executed this man’s companions in cold blood and then kidnapped him.

Your last line does indeed sound like a threat.

Would you take pleasure in another major attack on the U.S.?

God forbid that it does happen but I believe it will. It is the surest way to insure another cycle of violence and the beginning of a truely global conflict. And that is exactly what some extremists want.

The Iraq invasion is a complex issue. We won’t know for another 5-10 years if it was worth all it has cost. One thing that should be learned from it though is that the U.S. will not sit back on its haunches if it is attacked. Next time, you will not face a nation divided. The slumbering giant will wake again and you will face such wrath that the earth will shake.

Instead of agitating the western world, people like you should be cleaning your own house so we don’t have to knock it down completely.

[quote]new2training wrote:
This death is directly attributable to the degenerate barbarians that ambushed and executed this man’s companions in cold blood and then kidnapped him. [/quote]

Absolutely. But it is also a consequence of the hell-hole Iraq was turned into by the American “liberators”.

Ask the community how they like Sharia law incorporated into the Iraqi constitution, and how much terror there has been since the Yanks invaded them.

It’s a prediction. The genie is out of the bottle, and all the foiled plots so far seem to have been planned by retards. There’s not going to be anything of the 9/11 scale, but there will be victims by the dozens (I seriously doubt it could get to a hundred).

Are you insane?

Yep.

Technically, they already got what they wanted. They are already taking credit for Bush’s decision to attack Iraq. That alone, was a severe blow to the country. It shattered its image worldwide. Al-Qaeda enlisted like crazy after the invasion. They actually had to turn people down. And let’s not forget that the US is streched and that the impact of that act of aggression is starting to hit Americans in their wallets.

The conflict became global 5 years next week. That infamous day, you went from good guys protecting themselves to ruthless aggressors. Polls show that most Americans regret that act already.

In a 100 years, there will still be American troops in Iraq. That is the main reason you invaded, official reasons notwithstanding.

Once again, Iraqis did not attack you. Saudis and Egyptians trained and harbored by Afghanistan did. I haven’t felt much division when you toppled the Talibans. People might have quibbled over details, but every body seemed to agree on the principle.

I don’t see what you’re talking about.

Talk is cheap.

Knock yourself out. I lost hope a while back. Between Hillary Clinton the neo-con, A McCain proud of Rod Parsley, or an Obama with Brzezinski in foreign affairs, the next four years are bound to be - at least - as gloomy as the past seven. My “own house” is just sweeping everything under the rug, and sooner rather than later, the dust bunnies will metamorphose into raging tigers. Keep a close eye on Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

[/quote]

[quote]lixy wrote:

Absolutely. But it is also a consequence of the hell-hole Iraq was turned into by the American “liberators”.


[/quote]

Iraq was a hellhole before the US got there. If the Iraqis cannot govern themselves it is the Iraqis fault.

[quote]lixy wrote:

Absolutely. But it is also a consequence of the hell-hole Iraq was turned into by the American “liberators”.[/quote]

It is a hell-hole because certain groups of Iraqi’s choose to slaughter one another. It is a hell-hole because the decent Iraqis that haven’t fled yet aren’t strong enough to protect themselves yet.

It truly unfortunate that things are as bad as they are but if they take advantage of this opportunity the Iraqis can be much better off in 5 years than they ever would have been if we had not overthrown Saddam.

Times were probably worse during the the American Revolutionary War than they were before it but afterwards things got much better for the majority of the people.

[quote]
Would you take pleasure in another major attack on the U.S.?

Are you insane?[/quote]

If that is a no, I’m not sure if I believe you.

I agree. I think we played right into their hands in many regards. If they do it again though, they may bite off more than they can chew.

[quote]

The slumbering giant will wake again and you will face such wrath that the earth will shake.

Talk is cheap.

[/qoute]

If the will of the people is truly aroused, we are capable of much more than talk. I fear what we would become if we are hit by another major attack. You should too.

[quote]lixy wrote:

Talk is cheap.[/quote]

This is beyond comedy - Lixy, the pacifist, is essentially “calling the US out” on its lack of fortitude for retaliation.

Trolling is as trolling does.

[quote]Don’t compare a criminal act (however notable) with a state-sanctioned full-blown attack, invasion and occupation of a country.

If any majority Muslim country did to your country what the latter has done to Iraq, there will be burnt mosques. [/quote]

You have been invading our country, just in a 4th generation warfare sense. You’ve moved here, built mosques, and are now demanding shari’ah.

We infidels still outnumber you. Never forget that. And even if we didn’t, Mολὼν λαβέ

[quote]new2training wrote:
It is a hell-hole because certain groups of Iraqi’s choose to slaughter one another. It is a hell-hole because the decent Iraqis that haven’t fled yet aren’t strong enough to protect themselves yet.

It truly unfortunate that things are as bad as they are but if they take advantage of this opportunity the Iraqis can be much better off in 5 years than they ever would have been if we had not overthrown Saddam. [/quote]

I agree. In an ideal world, Iraq could be a stunning country with freedoms and all the shebang. But the fact of the matter is that it was an artificial one from the get-go. For better or for worse, Saddam was holding it together. I rant about my country and the dictatorship in place, but I know that we are far away from a position where toppling the government can do more good than harm. People of different ethnicities or faiths will ultimately demand independence. And if the group has been oppressed by the fallen tyrant, chances are that they will resort to violence.

Don’t pretend that the bombing and invading the country absolves the US of any responsibility for the ensuing chaos.

What good can come of it? Pain and suffering don’t really qualify for that category.

It is not a when, not an if. The nature of their ideology makes deterrence useless. You can’t scare a person ready to blow him/herself up. Many don’t seem to realize that, and think that flexing muscle is going to do any good.

The slumbering giant will wake again and you will face such wrath that the earth will shake.

You are capable of annihilating the entire planet. You are capable of enslaving medium sized countries.

I see an attack on US soil as inevitable. it’ll probably be carried out by Iraqis (to make a point), but Pakistanis or Saudis are also probable. Major it won’t be. The best they can do now is fly a private jet filled with explosives into a crowded building. And that’s one of the reasons you should be using your military to protect your land instead of “liberating” others.

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
lixy wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
The BBC’s Hugh Sykes in Baghdad says centuries of peaceful coexistence between Muslims and the small Christian community in Iraq were shattered by the US-led invasion of 2003.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7295672.stm

Because Americans forced them to fight?

Do Muslims have to be ruled with an iron fist to stop them from brutalizing infidels? Is that your point?

Like it or not, the invasion of Iraq by the United States boosted radical Islamist movements. It maybe due to a president who claims to be doing “God’s work” or that a good chunk of the American military is Christian, but that particular war was largely perceived as some sort of crusade. The situation in the Occupied Territories and Washington’s rhetoric towards Tehran didn’t help either.

If Israel invaded the USA tomorrow, you can be sure that plenty of your compatriots will start torching synagogues and that fundamentalism will rise. If Tunisia bombed and invaded your land, a lot of Americans will start lashing out at Muslims, no matter how much you think your country is homogeneous.

The point is that this death, and so many others, is attributable to the US invasion of Iraq. And trust me, your country is yet to suffer backlashes from that gratuitous act of violence.

You sound more and more like a terrorist everyday. You make a good point…then ruin it by putting your own dick in ya mouth.

I don’t get your point. How does predicting a very likely event make me sound “like a terrorist”? If you think waging wars and building bases on sovereign countries have no repercussions, you should reevaluate your position.

I’m not the one to worry about re-adjusting “positions.” [/quote]

Islamist terrorists were planning and executing acts of terror against the US and other nations before the war in Iraq, and will continue to do so. Their rationale for doing so (along with Lixy’s) will continue to evolve since it’s all about keeping Jihad alive and well. All part of the pathology of islam.

Lixy,I see that re-evaluating your “position” is going smooth as predicted…dick.

I did not compare it to Iraq.

Lixy said:

[quote]lixy wrote:
If Tunisia bombed and invaded your land, a lot of Americans will start lashing out at Muslims, no matter how much you think your country is homogeneous.

[/quote]

And I said we were attacked by Muslims on 9-11 and the general populace did not lash out at Muslims.

So, what is your logic? The US invaded Iraq, so the Muslims killed the Archbishop? What’s he got to do with the US? There are Christians killed by Muslims in Africa, in Egypt and during the Lebanese civil war and invasion by Syria, Iran and Israel.

(Yet the only one I hear being bitched about for invading Lebanon is Israel.)

I guess if muslims invade your country and Christians are killed or if it is done in a country which is already Muslim, like Sudan, it is ok.

[quote]will to power wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
lixy wrote:
The point is that this death, and so many others, is attributable to the US invasion of Iraq. And trust me, your country is yet to suffer backlashes from that gratuitous act of violence.

Is this a threat?

After 9-11, I don’t remember a lot of Mosques being burnt to the ground. If anything like you mention was going to happen, it would have happened then.

And if we are attacked again, like you threaten, who’s to say there won’t be some kind of spontaneous backlash against Muslims in the US the next time?

‘Since the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, members of these groups, and those perceived to be members of these groups, have been the victims of increased numbers of bias-related assaults, threats, vandalism and arson.’

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/legalinfo/nordwg_mission.html

It’s not as bad as in Iraq, obviously, but they are in a state of anarchy. It shouldn’t be anywhere near as bad as Iraq.

Edit; forgot to mention the groups were ‘Arab, Muslim, Sikh, and South-Asian Americans’[/quote]

Right, but it’s not as bad as Lebanon or Sudan either, is it?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Tell that to the Iraqis who lost children, parents, brothers and loved ones. See if they lay part of the blame on the US.

Since half the country thought the US was justified in invading them it is pretty telling that they thought Saddam was pretty fucking bad.

I am sure that the people that have loved ones being killed are blaming the killers themselves.[/quote]

Then why was there so much celebrating at first when our troops arrived? Why did they help us tear down Saddam’s statues?

The re-awakening council…they get it.

[quote]lixy wrote:
new2training wrote:
This death is directly attributable to the degenerate barbarians that ambushed and executed this man’s companions in cold blood and then kidnapped him.

Absolutely. But it is also a consequence of the hell-hole Iraq was turned into by the American “liberators”.
[/quote]

Who turned Sudan into a hell hole for Christians and Blacks?

[quote]lixy wrote:
Technically, they already got what they wanted. They are already taking credit for Bush’s decision to attack Iraq. That alone, was a severe blow to the country. It shattered its image worldwide. Al-Qaeda enlisted like crazy after the invasion. They actually had to turn people down. [/quote]

So, what are you in charge of enlisting? How the hell would you know?