T Nation

Kgoggs TRT Log Updated

Just got my labs back today. My protocol is 150mg a week, taken daily, I don’t take HCG or an AI.

TT - 1468
FT - 35
E2 - 84
SHBG - 12
TSH - 1.190
RT3 - 19.5
T3 - 3.5

I’m still not feeling well, and that TT level is more than double what I had before, and the FT isn’t doubled but much higher. My thyroid labs were all about in the middle of the range, so nothing crazy there… Why would I still not feeling well? I know that TT is high, but is that E2 high in comparison to the TT level? And what other levels would I need to look at to determine any other issues? Everything is in range besides those.

Ratio is 17.5 so normal.

When you say thyroid is middle of the range are you saying your TSH is at 2.25?

How long have you been on this protocol? When did you start? HOW are you not feeling well?

TSH is at 2, and I have no idea. Also if you use the ratio of 1 E per 15-25 T I should be closer to 60 E2? And that not taking my very low SHBG into account, so more of that E2 is free, that’s the only thing I see in there that would make any kind of sense, the rest of my stuff is good, I don’t know what the hell is wrong…

How long were you on this protocol before labs were taken?

10 weeks

Did you feel good on any protocol before?

You also didn’t answer this question.

Not any different than I do now even though all of my levels are basically doubled. Went from 650 TT to nearly 1500 TT, 23 FT to 35 FT, and 40 E2 to 84 E2. When I was at 650 TT and 40 E2 Defy recommended lowering my E2, and now my TT is higher, but my E2 is still a similar ratio, so I still think it needs to be lower. I seem to be very sensitive to E2 because of low SHBG. As for not feeling well, I’m still tired all the time, have trouble sleeping, low libido, depression, and weight gain. Also have crazy mood swings, including what I would call roid rage, I get insanely pissed at small things for no reason. (this is not normal)

Added thyroid lab to original post, everything else looks to be in range, BUN is 7 which is lower than normal barely, not sure what that is though. I want to also throw this idea out there…My TT is higher than the “normal” range obviously, as well as my FT…Is it possible i’m having problems because I have too much T? There we’re a few weeks where I felt really good, and then got worse…maybe this was my T rising higher than my body needs? I started TRT when I was 16 and did it til age 19 because I didn’t really understand its importance, so I stopped doing it after I moved out. From 16-19 I was only taking 50mg a week, and I felt really good from the time I was 17-19. But myself and my parents didn’t understand the importance of TRT, so I didn’t really go back for labs, my GP just kept represcribing my injections, and we didn’t know any better.

When was your last physical/yearly checkup? Do you have that blood work?

any bloodwork I’ve had done was related to TRT, and after the one time I had it tested when I was 16, I didn’t have it tested again til I was 22 and was starting treatment again. Both times TT was in the 200’s, not sure about FT or E2, I didn’t know to look for those, I’ve just recently started learning more about TRT.

I’m not sure what your insurance situation is, but if you have any it usually covers an annual physical of some sort. Get one. Your “Roid rage” feelings and other things that you have expressed could be from a lot of different things. I, for example, get homicidal when my calcium is at the end of the range (either direction), due to an underlying condition that didn’t bother me when I was younger. You should be open to a lot of possibilities, and not focused on just TRT.

You’re still pretty new to TRT and for some of us it takes longer to reap the benefits so don’t get discouraged. Your levels are very similar to mine on a daily protocol. If you still feel less than ideal 3 weeks from now you can try dropping another 20mg/week and see what that does.

So 2 things I’m going to try - #1 IM injections and #2 lower my dose by 25mg a week, so I’ll be doing 125mg a week split into to daily doses. Which should I try first? I’ll leave E2 alone for now and leave out a anastrazole, and try these things first. My issues are either not related to TRT, or my T is too high. I could also just not respond well to Subq injections. Opinions?

What is your amount and intensity of exercise?

None anymore, I don’t have the motivation, energy, or drive. Before going to my higher dose I would jog a few miles a few times a week, and occasionally do a few light sessions with a heavy bag, nothing crazy. Now I just don’t have it in me. I have a consultation this evening with Defy, I’ll get their opinion and run some the ideas I’ve seen here by them, and see what they think.

Also if I didn’t mention I gained 30 pounds in the 3 months I was on 150mg. Before increasing my dose I was losing weight, and doing well, but I didn’t have a whole lot of mental benefits, but my motivation and drive were slightly higher, but not much higher. I used to at least get that high you have in the morning when you wake up, but I haven’t been having that recently either. I just have a flat mood when I wake up, and it’s a low mood.

After the first few weeks I had somewhat of a “honeymoon” phase, but my natural production was already shut down. So I felt meh at first, after a few weeks on 150mg a week, I felt amazing for about 2 weeks or so, then got worse than before… Maybe I went past my sweet spot, Or, my TT and FT levels rose faster than my E2 giving me the balance I need, eventually passing that point and getting too high, causing me to relapse?

I saw your labs in a post, and I saw that your TT was much higher than mine, however your E2 was lower. Not only was your E2 lower, but your SHBG is much higher than mine, mine is only 12, so theoretically, I have way more E2 being used in my body. Everyone is saying not to worry about E2, but after looking at your labs, I feel like mine should definitley be lower than yours. What do you think about this?

For quick reference I’ll put your levels first on the left then mine:

TT 1999 VS. 1468
E2 0077 VS. 0084
SHBG 39 VS. 12
Also my FT is 35, not sure what yours is.

And yes I do know that everyone is different, but I’m still making the comparison.

Everyone seems to ignore the fact that my SHGB is very low, I don’t know if it’s because they don’t understand it completly, or if I’m overestimating its importance, but really think about it, your SHBG is more than triple what mine is.

I’m going to add an example, not directed at you but just in general for anyone who sees this post.
Let’s pretend that 1 SHBG can bind 1 E2. If you look at it this way, you would take my 84 E2, and subtract my 12 SHBG from it, that leaves me still with 72 FREE E2. If we take your 77 E2 and subtract 40 from it, we’re at 37. I know that’s not how it works, but just as an example, my E2 is now double yours nearly, and I have less TT and FT to balance out that ratio.

My free T is 35.

The difference between 77 & 84 is nothing. Our levels easily fluctuate that much hourly.

You are placing too much value on SHBG. It’s one of 100 things. @highpull has labs with multiple people on 200mg that have single digit SHBG. It’s one of those things that you get in your head and think it defines you.

You are overcomplicating things and worried about shit you can’t change. Worry about the things you can change (your T dose & how you inject). You have to play around until you figure out what works. Your body is going to automatically regulate your estrogen levels in accordance to your Testosterone (after it levels out on a specific dose).

There’s plenty guys in the pharma section on 500mg, no AI and with SHBG close to zero and not one of them complains about not feeling ideal because their E2 is high.

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If you aren’t working out regularly then you are handicapping your potential to feel good on TRT by a lot. If I miss more than a week in the gym I feel like crap. This could be a major part of your problem. It’s about routine, not drive or motivation. There’s plenty days that I don’t want to go but I go. I started out by telling myself I don’t have to workout that day but I have to step foot inside the gym before I can leave. There were many days initially where I left but I got in a habit of at least going everyday whether I actually worked out or not. About half the days I would decide to stay, then that turned into 2/3rds and so on. Don’t force yourself to work out but force yourself to at least go to the gym (or wherever).

If you have 20+% bf that will also keep you from ever feeling optimal. You can change that with diet alone very quickly though.

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