T Nation

Kevin and Kobe?

(This sure is an appropriate pic!)

I don’t know, guys…let’s discuss this thing!

Question:

"Can KG be Kobe’s “Scottie”?

KG has always seemed to be a pretty cool and humble guy, who wants to win. At 31, MAYBE he is realizing that a Championship may not be in store in Minnesota.

Now…he has always been the “Top Dog”, since he was a kid in Jr. High…

Can he be “second” to Kobe?

Wow…let’s discuss…

Mufasa

It’d be an interesting match-up for sure. Although I don’t like the idea of losing Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum. I would much rather part with Smush and Kwame. I think that both Kobe and Kevin are pissed off in the same sort of way, and they are both chomping at the bit to get it done. So, that kind of energy could go a long ways.

I’m trying to not think too much about the Lakers right now. It has not been cool runnings lately. But it’s never exactly been easy to be a Lakers fan, people like hating on the Lakers more than they like cheering for their own teams.

I’ve been listening to developments on “ESPN”:

The basic problem is that the Lakers don’t have a lot to give Minnesota in return for KG.

The “wheeling-and-dealing” that they are doing now is an attempt to get moved to higher Draft positions, so that they can “trade” them to the Timberwolves (along with some players AND some cash, of course).

Is this about right?

Mufasa

The only way the Lakers could make it work salary-cap wise would be for Odom and Kwame Brown to be in the trade.

I don’t see why Minnesota would trade with the Lakers, even if they get:

Odom
Brown
Bynum
2007 #1

That isn’t worth KG or what they could get from another team for him.

From the Lakers perspective… that’s a helluva deal for them. Odom is good but there are plenty of players like him in the league. Brown is a joke and by the time Bynum is ready to be a good player (if that ever happens) Kobe’s prime will be over.

Kobe and KG would be a great partnership, but also potentially destructive. Both are so competitive and don’t care who they have to step on in order to win. It could either be incredible or incredibley bad. I’d love to see it though.

That is a sweet pic, Mufasa.

From what I’ve read, a four-team deal fell apart so MIN and LAL have been talking directly. And KG’s top choice is PHO and not LA. (hmmmm, would I rather play with Nash or Bryant?)

In the end, MIN will most likely end up settling for less than KG’s worth instead of getting nothing when he opts out.

From what I’ve been hearing, MIN, PHX, and BOS are in talks now. Apparently, the proposed deal is KG to PHX, Shawn Marion to BOS, and the #5 pick to MIN.

MIN wants Al Jefferson, but BOS doesn’t want to give him up. Shawn Marion doesn’t want to go to BOS or MIN, but PHX has already talked to him that he might be traded.

Either way, I think MIN gets the short end of the stick, no matter what happens. MIN cannot get KG value in return for dealing KG.

If KG goes to PHX, I think that can be the second coming of the 96-98 Bulls (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman), with KG, Nash, and Amare. Nash is unselfish, and as long as Amare can accept a backseat to KG (which he should), things could be very good for PHX in an already dominate West.

In the end, I don’t think KG goes to LAL with Kobe.

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
From what I’ve been hearing, MIN, PHX, and BOS are in talks now. Apparently, the proposed deal is KG to PHX, Shawn Marion to BOS, and the #5 pick to MIN.[/quote]

That trade can’t happen. You can’t just trade a player for a pick. Salaries have to equal. At 21mil per year, Garnett is a huge load to trade. Here’s a trade that works between Boston, Phoenix and Minny.

Boston gets:
Marion
James Jones

Phoenix gets:
Garnett

Minnesota gets:
Theo Ratliff
Wally Szczerbiak
#5 pick

In my opinion, that’s pretty decent value for Garnett. They would have the #5 and 7 picks in the draft, they could bring in some combination of Wright, Horford and Noah. When Ratliff and Ricky Davis’ contracts expire after next season, they’ll have the cap room to go after Gilbert Arenas when his contract expires.

In two years, a lineup of:

Foye
Arenas
Szczerbiak
Wright
Noah

Could actually start to be competitive. Almost certainly better than what they have now.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:

That trade can’t happen. You can’t just trade a player for a pick. Salaries have to equal.

[/quote]

Actually, that trade can happen because (A) ESPN and all the other shows and media outlets would not be talking about it unless it was a possibility and (B) MIN needs to save a lot of cap room anyways. If you get equal money for Garnett, then MIN is back at square one in terms of money, and is not getting any salary cap relief.

I just saw on ESPN a new three-way possibility between MIN, ATL, and PHX

PHX gets Garnett
ATL gets Stoudemire
MIN gets #3 and #11 pick in the draft (once again, only getting draft picks without getting a player.)

Randy Moss was traded to New England for a fourth round draft pick, so it can happen in any league.

Either way, I just don’t think Amare wants to go to ATL.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:

In two years, a lineup of:

Foye
Arenas
Szczerbiak
Wright
Noah

Could actually start to be competitive. Almost certainly better than what they have now.[/quote]

Even if we don’t agree on the MIN trade issue, I will agree with you that, if this lineup becomes a reality, it could be a tough team, and can hang with the big dogs in the West.

Agent Zero leading the way and Wally back in MIN would be a good combination.

I don’t know about you, but I’m not sold on Noah. I know that he is going to be used mainly as a defensive specialist, but even then, I’m just not a big fan of him. I think he will be a good player, but not superstar lottery status where he is going to get drafted. I hope he does well though and proves me wrong.

Just thought of it…

If Kobe and Garnett become teammates in LA, you can call them KGB (Kevin Garnett-Bryant)

That’s pretty creative (sarcasm), but just a thought.

Speaking as T-Nations’s only known Spurs fan, I really, really, really hope Kevin Garnett does not go to Phoneix for Shawn Marion. The three way deal everyone is talking about. That will screw my Spurs over in a serious way. KG has always matched up well against Duncan but he never had the help at Minnesota. I am really hoping this doens’t happen.

I could actually live with K.G. at LA because I think he and Kobe would ultimately end up hating each other.

[quote]deputydawg wrote:
Speaking as T-Nations’s only known Spurs fan, I really, really, really hope Kevin Garnett does not go to Phoneix for Shawn Marion. The three way deal everyone is talking about. That will screw my Spurs over in a serious way. KG has always matched up well against Duncan but he never had the help at Minnesota. I am really hoping this doens’t happen.

I could actually live with K.G. at LA because I think he and Kobe would ultimately end up hating each other. [/quote]

Well they are already good friends although I am sure that would be tested. They both have a burning desire to just win games. Unfortunately, it seems that the KG/Kobe deal is falling through. The Suns seem to have the lead on getting him at the moment.

Just saw on espn.com that reportedly the Lakers are putting the KG deal on the backburner, and now talking with the Pacers on getting Jermaine O’Neal.

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
Just saw on espn.com that reportedly the Lakers are putting the KG deal on the backburner, and now talking with the Pacers on getting Jermaine O’Neal.[/quote]

I think Kobe would be just as happy with this one. I seem to recall him being pissed the Lakers passed an opportunity for O’neal in the past. That they are buddies that have wanted to play together for a while. Not sure though, could have just been sports gossip.

I also remember hearing or reading that Kobe wanted Jermaine O’Neill. That would definitely make the Lakers stronger. The West is getting stronger with Portland and Seattle having 1 and 2.

I’m glad DD brought up the Spurs…

To me, the ultimate “TEAM”…in other words, strong evidence that “teams”, not JUST individuals win championships.

It seems to me that in the NBA of today, you have to have one of two things:

  1. A group of talented individuals who mesh as a Team (the Spurs).

  2. A true “SuperStar” (e.g. Jordan) that year end and year out you give a) a consistent “wing” man (Pippen) and strong supporting cast. (Before I get ragged on, Duncan is a “SuperStar”; but he just isn’t the type of guy who can single-handedly take over a game and rip the opponents heart out (like Jordan did more than once with opponents. Ask Utah, Philly , Phoenix…hell, ask most of the NBA!).

I just think that Kobe wants…NEEDS…for the latter to happen to him.

But in the NBA of this new Century, do you guys think that it will realistically happen with all the egos and “me” attitudes?

Rip and discuss!

Mufasa

Just saw on espn.com that the possible ATL/PHX/MIN trade is off, Amare is not going anywhere, and KG is not going to PHX for now. Apparently, the Hawks never had any direct contact with MIN or PHX, and do not want to give up their #3 pick.

More off-season drama…stay tuned.

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
Actually, that trade can happen because (A) ESPN and all the other shows and media outlets would not be talking about it unless it was a possibility and (B) MIN needs to save a lot of cap room anyways. If you get equal money for Garnett, then MIN is back at square one in terms of money, and is not getting any salary cap relief.

Randy Moss was traded to New England for a fourth round draft pick, so it can happen in any league.[/quote]

Yeah… that’s great and all, but that’s the rule in the NBA. The incoming salaries cannot be greater than 125% + 100k of the outgoing salaries. For instance, Minnesota could not trade Kevin Garnett for Leandro Barbosa straight up, even if they wanted to. Look it up.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:

Yeah… that’s great and all, but that’s the rule in the NBA. The incoming salaries cannot be greater than 125% + 100k of the outgoing salaries. For instance, Minnesota could not trade Kevin Garnett for Leandro Barbosa straight up, even if they wanted to. Look it up.[/quote]

I looked it up, and you’re right. It makes sense now, I guess I had to see it from a numbers perspective.

My apologies jtrinsey, hopefully no hard feelings.

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:

Yeah… that’s great and all, but that’s the rule in the NBA. The incoming salaries cannot be greater than 125% + 100k of the outgoing salaries. For instance, Minnesota could not trade Kevin Garnett for Leandro Barbosa straight up, even if they wanted to. Look it up.

I looked it up, and you’re right. It makes sense now, I guess I had to see it from a numbers perspective.

My apologies jtrinsey, hopefully no hard feelings.[/quote]

Don’t they have ways of structuring these deals to get around those rules?