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keto diets

I've been on high fat/low carb diet for well over 2 months now, and i could prolly stay on it forever. My strength is the same at the gym, plus i feel much better when working out since im not bloated and i dont fall into seratonin induced comas. And I look MUCH better. I know some of you flame keto and strict diets like t-dawg when trying to trim down the fat. some of  you cant stay on em for the light of day. However some, like me could stay on it forever. A trainer told me it has to do with how well ur body uses fats for energy, and that some people cant tolerate this kind of diet. he was surprised it worked for me and told me to stay on it if my energy isnt sagging. Any insights as to why some individuals do so well on these diets without losing energy or performance, while others will feel terrible, and cant stay on it no matter how many t-vixens will be drooling over them offering group handjobs and bjs? Feel free to criticize anything in this post at all.

Probably, them, your, can’t, isn’t

I have no idea, but I’d like to know why this is so. Maybe it’ll give me ideas how I can follow a keto diet without feeling like shit.

There’s not much to criticise about your post, in my opinion. It’s natural that many people feel better on the diet we were designed to be on (high protein, moderate to high fat,lowish carb) as it was the diet we evolved on for a very long time. There has been some adaptation to a higher carb diet after the agricultural revolution (10 000 years ago) but most populations haven’t been on a higher carb diet for that long. Noerthern Europeans for example have only donne so for around 3 000 years or so, which in evolutionary terms is very little. All our genes were pretty much formed while we were hunther gatherers (from around 1 800 000 years till now) and hunther gatherers diets consist in about 65% calories from animal sources.

I could go on this forever, I’ve done plenty of research on the subject.

I recomend you go to beyondveg.com and do some reading on it.

 Interesting stuff. Im originally from Portugal, so I guess us portuguese people havent been on carbs for that long when compared to others. regardless, neither o us have been on high carb diets for that long which brings me back to my original qution  why do some people absolutelyhave to have their share of carbs in their diet? It just makes sense that any of us shold be able to live off mostly fat and protein with little carbs. Tht isnt the case, and I highly doubt there has been any change in our genetic codes in the past 10,000 or 3,000 years. 

I was always one of those people who wouldn’t do the keto diet, and thought that I couldn’t live without my carbs. I think the biggest change I made that helped the most was increasing my intake of fish oil. I take in 18 1g caps a day, and I’m doing great on the keto diet. I also use the carb up days, ala Cheater’s Diet, but I really plan to stay on this diet for a long time.

Hey, I’m typing from Portugal! First time I meet a Portuguese on this board.

I think it’s highly debatable whether those people really need the carbs in their diet or if they haven’t been on it long enough for their bodies to adapt properly to using fat as fuel. Either way, carbs are not an essential nutrient in any way, our bodies can make them out of anything else so we don’t really need them.

I to feel like crap on high carb diets. Even when buling I keep carbs below 30-35% of total calories.

For whatever scientific reason that you can come up with, I’m one of those guys that can’t handle very low carbs. I drop mine below 100 grams a day and I feel like absolutely shit. I can’t think. I just can’t function.

I've tried it for up to three weeks at a time and it just doesn't work for me. I've got to think to do my job so it's not just a matter of not performing at the gym. I also looked so damn flat that it was depressing to go to the gym anyhow.

I'm definitely not advocating going nuts on the carbs. My diet is about 40-45% carbs but cutting them down to Atkins levels is insane for me.

I doubt if many cave men were engineers.

I think that for some people ketogenic diets can be a valuable tool. As far as bulking up goes carbs are king. Muscles work much better when they’re full of glycogen. I don’t care how good someone feels on a keto diet, you aren’t going to make the same gains as you would with an extra 500-600 grams of carbs in your diet. As far as evolution goes, nobody knows for sure how long ago the earth was created, but if you look at historically accurate books like the bible, you will find that the earth is possibly a few thousand years old. Oh and let’s say the earth is older, How would you know that all they ate was meat? Were you there with them eating everyday, or are you just assuming. You know when you assume you make an ass out of u and me.

HeHe restless, whoda thunk?
Brent, I would be careful when u get off the keto diet in the future - When u decide to incorporate carbs back in ur diet ur body may have forgotten how to break them down. Ur insulin sensitivity will decrease, meaning if u start pumping carbs by the lb,since itll take more insulin to handle them, ur body will store more fat than it would otherwise. Just thought I'd throw that in there, just in case.

Oh my…Were do i start?

“As far as evolution goes, nobody knows for sure how long ago the earth was created, but if you look at historically accurate books like the bible, you will find that the earth is possibly a few thousand years old.”

This one is funny. The bible is not a hystorically acurate book. Mankind has been around for a few million years. There is archeological evidence of this. This same archeological evidence gives us many clues about how our ancestours diets were. I can tell you what mankind ate for most of his evolution, it’s pretty much the same hunther gatherers are eating today. I’m not assuming anything. I’ve done my research, I’m not talking out of my ass like you seem to be doing (otherwise, prove me wrong).

I’ve had a few discussions on other boards about this, so instead of typing it all again I’ll just do some copy paste of some posts I typed. Read on, you might learn something. Sorry about the arrogance.

“We could have a very interesting discussion about this, but i’m not sure there’s any point.”

This one seems like it was typed specifically for you

"Prior to the advent of agriculture there was no way we could manage to get a significant amount of calories from carbs. If you look at current hunter gatherer tribes you’ll see that most of the calories come from animal sources and most have high protein and moderate to high fat diets, they also didn’t have any modern man diseases like diabetes and many others. Fruit wasn’t available year round to them so don’t dig up that one. This has been researched plenty and these are known facts. How can people say 2 million years of evolution are wrong? It’s ridiculous. That’s the diet we evolved on and that’s the one that suits us the most. There’s actually evidence of lowered bone density and of a drop in stature during the period corresponding to the beggining of agriculture. Do you think it’s a coincidence that the first populations to start eating high carb diets are also the smaller ones? (asians, in case you don’t know) This is due to the high anti nutrient content of grains which prevent the absortion of some important minerals and to the lowered protein intake. I could go on forever i did a ton of research on this."

“Fossil records do show violent deads to be the primary cause of death, along with resulting infections from wounds caused by wild animals and alike. I can’t remember the exact numbers but if i recall correctly, paleotlithic people lived to around 35 years old, were bigger in stature and had better bone density. Agricultural man had a lot worst health, lived less during some periods (remember midle age?) but did manage to protect themselves from many of the dangers that plagued cave man due to living in bigger comunities. If my memory doesn’t fail me, diabetes was first documented by the greeks and there never was any record of it before agricultural man. And for the record, you only have to live to be a teenager to develop diabetes so age is not an argument, diet is.”

“Yes diet was diferent from place to place, but like current hunter gatherers the diet was mainly from animal sources (65% or more). The oldest fossil record of a grain processing aparatus is from around 50 000 years ago, and even then grains couldn’t have been an adequate calorie source year round.”

" From around 2 million (a bit less on some places) years till now, man had a diet composed mainly of animal sources, most genes were formed on a relatively high meat diet and as I assume you know, trough the generations there will be a natural selection of those who have the genes more fit to the surrounding environment, like is happening these days with our diets. Some people do tolerate grains better than others."

"Of course there were times when we were just gatherers and not hunters, especially around the time we were our last relative to apes and not humans yet. Meat consumption increased singificantly as we evolved to what we are today. And any way you look at it, grains weren’t a big part of our diet till very recently. And for the record, the rest of the calories that weren’t meat weren’t necessarily carbs. Nuts were also a big part of our diet as these are very caloricly dense.

The fact is, and has been proven by fossil records, man had a worst health in the Neolithic (Agricultural man). This was due to changes in diet, particulary increased carb intake and lowered protein."

"I never said that it was the inabilty to make fire that prevented from eating grains. It wasn’t. It was:

The fact that grains could never be a viable calorie source is due to various reasons:

First is the considerably smaller size of wild grains. Domesticated grains were “artificially” selcted to always breed the bigger seeds possible so the grains we know now are considerably larger than they were at that time, or still are in wild nature.
Second is the fact that they weren’t laid out in a single field all cute like they are now. You had to walk aorund all day long (or at least for considerable amounts of time) to obtain a couple of hundreds of grains that would provide a measly amount of calories. Not viable in any way, and there’s no way around this untill agriculture happened.
Third is the lack of proper utensils to process grains, namely those necessary to grind and boil them. Ever tried to eat raw rice? It will come out just the same it went in.

So grains could never constitute a considerable part of our calories. It was meat (including small mammals as rats, snakes, some fish, insects, bugs,yek!!), some tubs, nuts, wild fruits, some vegetables and in some cultures there is evidence of small grain comsumption in specific areas dating around 50 000 years ago."

There you go. Keep in mind that this a sucession of replies to other posters so there’s some repetition. Oh, and by the way, I don’t assume things because as you stated, one might make an ass out of himself (like you’ll end up doing if you don’t put at least a little thought on your posts), instead, I do my research before I speak.

Stay cool.

 Dude ur right - the earth is indeed a measle 2000 years old... God snaped his fingers and voila, the earth and the sun and the seas and hot bitches were created. Do yourself a favor and go get laid. Please. Go. Now.

I think it’s very individual. I can’t do keto. Not even a 50g of carb/day thing. I go nuts. I have no energy, I can’t think, and I’m cranky. It’s worse than the worst PMS.

OTOH -- I do fine on high protein. Actually I hate eating vegetarian because I feel unsatisfied after the meal, no matter how good it was. So I tend to eat a lot of meat along w/ my carb. When I really want to restrict my carb, I do about 100-150g/day plus a lot of protein.

O BTW – Despite my Asian heritage, I managed to wean myself off of rice and noodle. (OK, I still eat Asian rice cakes, which are so soft and chewy, but only once in a while) Almost all of my carbs come from fruits, veggies, and some other starch (potatoes, etc.).

–Ryan–, you’re an idiot. Please don’t post on this board again unless you’ve got something at least a little scientific to say. And just for your information, restless is one of the more intelligent posters around here. I’d think twice before taking him on…

Boy, the things we’re willing to give up and do without for the body of our dreams . . . For me, it was giving up pizza, sag paneer & brianni, chai tea latte’s at Starbucks and apple pie.

There have been studies which shown that switching from carbs to zero-low carbs have caused all the symptoms you guy/gals are describing. The thing for you guys is to ease into the diet over a few weeks to months. Not what you wanted to hear? Sorry about that but it’s reality.

Keto works for everyone however not everyone can go zero carbs cold turkey. If you want to convert from a carb metabolizer to a fat then you will have to switch to low carb and stay there for a while. The decision is yours. I’ve chosen and am taken it slow. By my estimations I should be adapted by the end of the year. Have fun. Croooz

“Easing into things” Duh! Now, that may just be the trick. But I still believe each of us has a unique, bio-individual “sweet point,” that level of carb intake at which we upregulate fat metabolism, but at which energy doesn’t suffer. 100g/day gives me LOADS of energy. 75-80g/day causes my energy to suffer. That’s not much of a window. Nonetheless, I’m going to be doing sub-50g/day, and my energy will just have to pay the price. Thank god Joel Marion came along with his carb refeeds. (grin)

Well… heres the problem I have with a lot of keto-diets. Yes, I drop fat quickly on them, and for the most part my body ‘detoxes’(if you’ve experienced it, you know what i mean) and I lose a lot of ‘bloated’ feelings. However, group handjobs and bjs are sort of worthless if you can’t get the ‘12th wonder of the world’ to stand at attention because of a lack of carbs. Maybe its just my personal hormones - but I’d place sex drive and satisfactionability above a couple % bodyfat any day.

I haven’t read of any studies where there’s a “sweet spot”. You’re either metabolizing fat as energy or carbs. Problem is most don’t keep the carbs low enough for long enough to upregulate the fat enzymes. I’ve read enough about this and decided to try it out. My thing will be taking on a close to zero carb diet at maintenance. No carb up or anything. I’ll only experience what I’ve read in the journals if I do it.

While I do agree that there is a point where carb intake can decidely make a difference. I doubt that after the fat metabolizing enzymes have been upregulated, will that point matter anymore. You can either burn fat or carbs as fuel not both, at least not in my experience nor readings. Croooz