T Nation

Keto Diet w/ No Refeeds. Advice?


#1

Hi

Well I am just past 30 days of being following a KETO diet 7 days a week(no refeeds) and working out heavy 4 x a week. with Less then 30g of carbs a day.

My stats the day I started 216 pounds (measurements in my signature) Bodyfat was 20% but is a estimate.

Today my weight is 203 pounds this morning after breakfast and my waist is now 37". I got calipers to check and It looks like I am between 13.5 - 14.5% right now.

My BIG question is should I continue the way I am going or should I start (refeed weekends)? If I should continue for how long? or change anything in my nutrition?

My MAIN goal is : Retain as much muscle as possible and loose as much inches from my waist as possible (35" would be awesome).

So what would you do if you where me?
any help would be appreciated.


Bigden

Currently on "anabolic diet" since 12-12-2008
Working like a charm

Stats:
Chest: 49"
Arms: 17" 1/2
Legs: 26.5"
Waist: 37.5" (down from 44")
Weight: 208 (down from 225)
Height: 5'9"


#2

I suggest having a refeed week, not weekend, at around week 6 or 7. This should reset your hormone profile to near normal and actually make the next 30-45 days of your diet more successful. You will certainly gain water weight in that week, but you should gain very minimal fat if any. Put calories back to maintenance, and increase carbs back up to 35-40% just use them wisley.

V


#3

Solid advice...I agree I can relate to the OP. I did not use refeeds until my weightloss started to stall. I went on caloric maintenance around 7 weeks and upped my carbs to maybe 100g a day and added in more fats and protein to make up the cal difference. While during this maintenance period I was eating fruits and sweet potatoes in the morning and right after training.

You will most defiantly be up 5-10 pounds but it's water/glycogen don't worry about it, after a week on keto again you will lose it. When I started doing refeeds I usually did them one day a week on Sunday.


#4

Interesting guy's. You guys probably have better insulin systems then me..I dont know..this is my first diet ever...my body is 100% insulin resistant!!

I'm just scared to go and start eating carbs and regain all my fat :frowning: being a former Fat ass with big forearms...LOL.. It would be a nightname. For me its all about keeping my waist smaller (I dont care too much of regaining water weights on the rest of my body)

I dont think my diet is slowing down right now...I think I am mostly impatient but I could be slowing down as most of my weight lost first week was water probably

So if I understant correct! please correct me if I am wrong.

1- Continue a little bit longer until my fat loss stops.
2- Refeed on 1 complete week (7 days) instead of 1 weekend before returning into Ketosis

I forgot to mention that I am also on EC stack 2 times daily first 3 weeks of my diet and now this week started 3 times daily (24 mg ephedrine, 200mg caffeine)

thank you for your help.


#5

I think the one week is better as the endocrine system is one of the slowest in your body, I'm not sure it can really ramp up in response to a stimulus in just a day or two. A week will make sure your endocrine system (hormones) are back to nearly optimal levels. Also if you are eating maintenance, you should not gain any fat if any. You are not doing a week of binge eating here, you are just giving your body enough calories to function without much strain.

I would also use this week to go very light in the gym. Basically go in and get the blood flowing and then get out. This is a recovery week and your body will respond well if you take it easy. To be honest, you will probably feel pretty huge this week, if you do some higher rep stuff, you are going to get massive pumps from going back on the carbs. Just stay away from training to failure and high volume and you will be good to go. Also I would cut the cardio or HIIT back a notch too. You are preparing yourself this week to explode through the next 6 or 7 weeks and you want to have all the extra energy you can.

At 30 days I would say go another 2 weeks before doing your refeed week. You can still be losing good amounts of fat right now and your energy should still be decent. Everyone is different though, if you notice a huge drop in motivation, energy, or fatt loss, do the refeed sooner. Not everyone can be pinned to a specific template. Heck you may be able to go 8 weeks without a refeed.

V


#6

x2, some people even lose weight (fat) during a refeed. I suppose this is because your metabolism upregulates.


#7

*****MY PLAN*****
SO, keep going until my fat loss stops. Start a refeed 1 day a week on a Saterday for me and go all out HIGH CARBS, medium protein and almost no fat.

So all that insulin will be pushing to muscle tissue : protein , glycogen stores, creatine, water so I will be expecting a good 5-10 pounds with close to no fat gain if I keep my fat intake low.

Keep doing this and add refeeds if I keep losing fat...the rest of the time stay in Ketonis...

So here it goes my journey continues with another few weeks of Hope I can lose another 2 " of my waist and get to 35" from 37" right now...

Am I on the right track here? Thanks guys


#8

Wait what?! I would refeed every 8days, for one day actually for a mere three or four meals.
Have a piece of fruit before your workout on the refeed day.

Dextrose or Waxy Maize Starch PWO then two complex carb meals of about 50g each... my .02cents I dont see the point in re-feeding for a whole week and readjusting to life outside of ketosis. IME the body gets "in a groove" after being in ketosis for a while, no need to make it re-adjust. Also, youre merely kickstarting your metabolism for one day in hopes of keeping leptin levels normal.


#9

I agree, one week seems to be a bit much to start off with.


#10

I agree. I would do two weeks...

Start off with a carb up period eating lower fat and high carbs, moderate protein for 1-2 days and then lower carbs to a normal level and keep calories at maintenance for two weeks. Be happy with your huge strength increase and how much better you look.

One week diet break is a good minimum after a prolonged period like that, very good advice by Vegita

You won't gain fat. You will replenish your glycogen stores and regain water weight and improve your health and strength and hormones significantly.

Then go back to hard dieting.


#11

Keep in mind that the lower your BF gets, the more frequently you can refeed. At this point you may wanna keep your refeed as minimal as possible, maybe one meal and see how you react, and in a few weeks, maybe a full day. Everyone is different, and again, your body will react differently as your composition changes.

S


#12

I'm in a similar boat as OP, except that I don't have as far to go and I am currently stalled with fat loss.

I have a question: during the refeed week, should I drop the cardio work I'm doing, or just scale back the intensity? I am during lactic acid work twice a week, phosphate energy system sprints also twice a week in addition to strength training 3 days a week (cardio usually occurs on strength training days).

Thanks in advance.


#13

a refeed and a diet break are different things though

6-7 weeks of intense dieting in ketosis, for someone just under 15% bodyfat, deserves a two week diet break. Eat carbs and eat at maintenance.

It is a separate issue as to whether refeeds are appropriate and how often. Although a refeed might be appropriate before said diet break, regardless of all he should be doing a diet break.


#14

Exactly, I used the term refeed only because it was what was used earlier in the post, But I would consider a re-feed a day max of eating more, perhaps even above maintenance, during the dieting phase. A week of just normal eating was what I was referring to. Not a week of "re-feed".

I think a re-feed every week or every couple of weeks is good to give you a little bump in your energy levels, but the week or even longer of normal eating is probably necessary to elicit hormone changes back to the normal range.

V


#15

I would scale back the intensity on anything you do for that week. Just really light cardio, with less volume and some high repetition work with low volume. All you are looking to really do is get blood pumping through your muscles at an increased rate to help get the nutrients to them so they can regain thier full strength.

V


#16

OP at your bodyfat, I would do one refeed every eight days. What the hell is the point in a two week break? Unless youre eating to gain muscle with min fat gain. A two week stasis is not needed at your point, or any point for that matter. Glycogen storages are not so abundant that they call for a two week refeed-


#17

who's OP?


#18

who's OP?[/quote]

In this case you are. OP refers to Original Poster.


#19

Thanks :slightly_smiling: New at forum talk..


#20

Umm actually after 5-6 weeks of heavy dieting, your hormones are all much lower than they are normally, this includes good fat loss hormones like Testosterone, IGF-1, HGH, ETC... so the one or two week "maintenance" re-feed, does in fact do something helpful and in most cases critical to a long term diet. A one day re-feed is not sufficient to stimulate hormone response. The endocrine system reacts too slowly, it is the slowest regulatory system in the body, and makes it's changes over weeks and months, not over minutes and hours. Eating below maintenance will eventually make your hormone profile adapt to trying to hold onto it's mass, the maintenance week essentially tricks your body into not caring if more mass is lost, and thankfully for our dietary knowledge, we can make most of that loss be fat, not muscle.

V