T Nation

Kerry, What, a Man?


#1

Yes, this title I think is closer to the point than the earlier "Kerry? What?" post.

It does matter what he did 30 years ago. The present discussion of JK's purple hearts is really off the mark. What is not disputed is the minor nature of the wounds. A bruise on the arm, a slight penetration by a piece of metal, come on. Most of us have probably gouged ourselves more seriously lifting weights, or moving furniture. I shot myself in the thumb once with a nailgun. It penetrated probably to the bone. I just pulled it out, rapped it with a band-aid and went back to work. We were being paid by the house, not by the hour, so it wasn't worth whining to anyone about and taking off time to go to the hospital. It healed up fine. I have a little tiny scar. Let's see your scar JK, would someone pass a magnifying glass up to the podium please.

You would think that a soldier who has seen other men killed or maimed would be ashamed to receive a purple heart for such a little wound, if it even deserves to be called a wound. What is really telling is that he has 3, and probably not one scar can be seen without being about 2 feet away from him.

The guy is a joke as a man; he is a shameless opportunist.


#2

Actually, I see now that JackZ made an excellent post back in the "Bob Dole's Comments" thread. Let's not mention him in this one since he's not running.

Just answer this Kerry lovers- what do you think of a man who has 3 purple hearts for micro wounds. What do you think about your "man"? Don't blab on about how he was honorably discharged (oh, and by the way, he should have thrown that paper over the fence too, since he's a self-confessed atrocity committer). Sorry, that just brings up another question (and now I'm cluttering up my own thread), Why did he request to re-up, so he could take part in more atrocities, maybe get his own set of souvenir ears?


#3

... blab blab blab...
just joking.. (couldnt resist)
So do I have to be called a "Kerry lover" just because I'm a "Bush Hater"? He's not "my man". I dislike him the least...
Seriously, I think many voters have made up their minds by now and questioning whether or not Kerry's war wounds tore through more tissue than your nailing accident won't change anything. Or prove your point.


#4

I try to stay out of this as much as I can but...you're kidding right? You're claiming that John Kerry isn't a man because he only received minor contusions and shrapnel wounds while in the middle of a war? John Kerry volunteers to go to Vietnam, puts his life in danger everyday, actively engaging the enemy, but he is not a man because he only received "micro" contusions and shrapnel wounds (not really, he "isn't a man" because he's a democrat and you're a republican, but I'll play along for a moment).

Personally, I couldn't care less about this issue. The man went to war, risked his life for his country, came back, and is now running for President.

Let's get back to the issues...(who am I kidding?)


#5

I must admit that I really haven't followed the service record / swift boat stuff (as I think there are other, more important issues in the presidential campaign) - but one thing really interests me:

If Kerry was such a jerk, and he did not deserve them, why did he get his medals in the first place? And doesn't the decision to commend him and let him keep them reflect badly on the military?

Just wondering.


#6

It's not that the man received three purple hearts. It's that the man stood behind the podium at the democratic national convention and seemed to make that the center of his campaign! "Reporting for duty." PULEASE!

When Bob Dole ran for President a few years back you rarely heard him speak of his war wounds or medals. And the man lost the use of an arm!

I will not belittle Kerry's war record. However, I will belittle how he is attempting to use it (on a regular basis) as the center piece of his campaign. It's shameful!


#7

Since when is it shameful to make sure people know of your patriotic activities?

C'mon, America is the land of the braggart, are you going to tell me that Kerry can't brag about his accomplishments too?

Quit changing the rules because you aren't in favor of the guy.


#8

vroom,

There you go again! You are insulting Americans now: "America is the home of the braggart." I don't appreciate that especially in light of the fact that you are not an American!

Want to have some fun? I will let my fellow T-Men fill in the blank:

Canada is the home of__________________


#9

Incidentally, Bob Dole is far to humble to brag about his war record, which by the way is quite impressive!


#10

Yes. Thats very retarded. I cringed when I heard that Ill be the first to admit. But you'll have to get past that. Life must continue. And don't worry.. Bush will get his chance at stupidity in NYC. He hasnt let us down yet!


#11

Bush's lack of military record is shameful compared to Kerry's and Kerry would be stupid not to make hay out of it.

I have to think that a swaggering Texan like Bush has a DEEP SENSE OF SHAME that when he had a chance to do his duty, he pussied out. Bush requested NOT to be sent to Vietnam. Compare that to Kerry, who did one tour in Vietnam away from the action, then requested a second tour so he could see action.

When Bush was doing jumping jacks, getting hammered every night, and lounging around the pool, John Kerry was serving in Vietnam. A self-styled swaggering "tough guy" like George Bush will never be able to live down his eternal shame, that when he had a chance to actually fight for his country, he wimped out.

http://www.glcq.com/


#12

Canada is the home of six years (1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2000) as the top ranked country in the world on the United Nations Human Development Index?

Canada is the home of relatively affordable university education?

Canada is the home of the world's longest life expectancy?

Canada is the home of many of the most popular T-Nation authors?


#13

What's with all the question marks, eh?


#14

My friend Lumpy wrote:

"Bush's lack of military record is shameful compared to Kerry's and Kerry would be stupid not to make hay out of it.

I have to think that a swaggering Texan like Bush has a DEEP SENSE OF SHAME that when he had a chance to do his duty, he pussied out. Bush requested NOT to be sent to Vietnam. Compare that to Kerry, who did one tour in Vietnam away from the action, then requested a second tour so he could see action.

When Bush was doing jumping jacks, getting hammered every night, and lounging around the pool, John Kerry was serving in Vietnam. A self-styled swaggering "tough guy" like George Bush will never be able to live down his eternal shame, that when he had a chance to actually fight for his country, he wimped out."

Hey Lumpy, why do the overwhelming majority of Veterans support W.?

That must really bother you.

It makes me happy to point that fact out.

Have a great day!!!

JeffR


#15

My point is that he is a shameless opportunist because he accepted medals for his micro-wounds. He could have turned them down, many others did.


#16

Lumpy,

Your comparison is too simplistic. I see Kerry's actions in regards to getting into Vietnam, and his subsequent actions as very self-serving. This has already been written about. You, and anyone else who thinks that all who enlist during time of war are doing so for noble purposes, don't no soldiers very well. I think the fact that he was carrying around a camera videoing himself is really a crack up. Oh, sure others took pictures, I've even seen a few home videos from Vietnam, but how he has used them, shows us what an opportunist he is. His 3 medals for micro-wounds is just more of the same.

Re-enlisted, why would he want to do that if he thought the war was being managed so badly, and that actions he was taking part in, or would take part in, could be described as atrocities? Sounds like he doesn't have much of a conscience to me. If he really believed what he did in Nam can be described as atrocities, he should hang his head in shame every time the war is mentioned.


#17

So Lumpy, are you saying that Bubba's 'loathing' of the military was "...shameful compared to..." the service of Bush 41 and Dole? Kerry's Party had no problem nominating him for President-twice.

Are you also saying that Bubba "...will never be able to live down his eternal shame, that when he had a chance to acutally fight for his country, he wimped out." Interesting, as that would explain the bombing of a country without the approval of the UN that presented no threat to the US (or The Great White North, for that matter, eh?) that killed thousands of innocent civilians. It might also explain his treatment of the opposite sex. Compensation is a bitch- for others.


#18

Here is something from Oliver North on Kerry. I know some will immediately attack North, and ignore the points he has raised.

Please note the end- Jane Fonda apologized, why won't JK, at least to the ex-prisoners who directly suffered from his activities?

Here is the article:

"John Kerry complains, 'Of course, the president keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: "Bring it on".' Dear John, Bring it on. As usual, you have it wrong. You don't have a beef with President George Bush about your war record. He's been exceedingly generous about your military service. Your complaint is with the 2.5 million of us who served honorably in a war that ended 29 years ago and which you, not the president, made the centerpiece of this campaign. I talk to a lot of vets, John, and this really isn't about your medals or how you got them. Like you, I have a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. I only have two Purple Hearts, though. I turned down the others so that I could stay with the Marines in my rifle platoon. But I think you might agree with me, though I've never heard you say it, that the officers always got more medals than they earned and the youngsters we led never got as many medals as they deserved. This really isn't about how early you came home from that war, either, John. There have always been guys in every war who want to go home. There are also lots of guys, like those in my rifle platoon in Vietnam, who did a full 13 months in the field. And there are, thankfully, lots of young Americans today in Iraq and Afghanistan who volunteered to return to war because, as one of them told me in Ramadi a few weeks ago, 'the job isn't finished.' Nor is this about whether you were in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968. Heck John, people get lost going on vacation. If you got lost, just say so. Your campaign has admitted that you now know that you really weren't in Cambodia that night and that Richard Nixon wasn't really president when you thought he was. Now would be a good time to explain to us how you could have all that bogus stuff 'seared' into your memory -- especially since you want to have your finger on our nation's nuclear trigger. ... The trouble you're having, John, isn't about your medals or coming home early or getting lost -- or even Richard Nixon. The issue is what you did to us when you came home, John. When you got home, you co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War and wrote 'The New Soldier,' which denounced those of us who served -- and were still serving -- on the battlefields of a thankless war. Worst of all, John, you then accused me -- and all of us who served in Vietnam -- of committing terrible crimes and atrocities. On April 22, 1971, under oath, you told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that you had knowledge that American troops 'had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam.' And you admitted on television that 'yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed.' And for good measure you stated, '(America is) more guilty than any other body, of violations of (the) Geneva Conventions ... the torture of prisoners, the killing of prisoners.' Your 'antiwar' statements and activities were painful for those of us carrying the scars of Vietnam and trying to move on with our lives. And for those who were still there, it was even more hurtful. But those who suffered the most from what you said and did were the hundreds of American prisoners of war being held by Hanoi. Here's what some of them endured because of you, John: Capt. James Warner had already spent four years in Vietnamese custody when he was handed a copy of your testimony by his captors. Warner says that for his captors, your statements 'were proof I deserved to be punished.' He wasn't released until March 14, 1973. Maj. Kenneth Cordier, an Air Force pilot who was in Vietnamese custody for 2,284 days, says his captors 'repeated incessantly' your one-liner about being 'the last man to die' for a lost cause. Cordier was released March 4, 1973. Navy Lt. Paul Galanti says your accusations 'were as demoralizing as solitary (confinement) ... and a prime reason the war dragged on.' He remained in North Vietnamese hands until February 12, 1973. John, did you think they would forget? ... One last thing, John. In 1988, Jane Fonda said: 'I would like to say something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families.' Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?" --Oliver North, Lt. Col., USMC(ret)