T Nation

Kerry alleged infidelity

I would agree that at least 50% of the population is morally corrupt?.and that surprises you in what way. If it were not for a lack of morals we would probably be in better shape as a country.

Me Solomon Grundy

dan c,

Are you or your parents divorced?
I have found that people who have suffered from divorce the most, are the same ones that get all worked up when people speak against divorce and infidelity. I find that very strange. Why does it offend you that I seek a “higher standard?” Would you argue that it is better for an individual to have one or less parent? Would you say, that ON AVERAGE, two parents produce happier and more productive children? If you agree, why not strive for a situation where children have a better chance for personal and financial success? I would find it hard to argue against the nuclear family.
Infidelity is one of the major causes of divorce. I say it sends the wrong message to society about honesty and trust. Why not speak fervently against it?
Finally, please do not give me examples of children who have “made it” without both parents. Do not give me examples of children with both parents who have failed miserably. Do not try to contend that two parents who work full time may be less nuturing than a single parent who has more time and money to spend with their children. I clearly said, ON AVERAGE.


  1. My parents are not divorced and have been together for 30+ years.
  2. I am not revved up at all by the divorce thing. It`s a fact of life.
  3. What I found funny was your hes divorced, hes morally bankrupt argument. Like one guy`s representative of all the rest. Or the opposite, like all the rest are representative of one.
  4. Given a 50% divorce rate, I am sure that there are tons of good willing people who tried all their best to make both sides of the marriage work. They could even have flawless characters. Sometimes things dont work out. Specially when you rush into marriage because ofsocietal pressures` like so many Babyboomers did (marry to conform). No wonder it eventually breaks up.
  5. Ditto to 4, but for assholes who dont give a shit, have no character. Yes, theyre still part of the divorce bunch, but you cant say the gave their best. And theyre still divorced in the end.
  6. Consequence of 4) and 5), and the whole point behind my previous reply, is that you cant use thedivorcedflag to predict or evaluate ones character. Unless you were there, know what happened and let to it, youre clueless like all the rest and at bestlucky` in your character guess.

Higher standards are fine. You give it your all and hope the other does too. But even all the hard work in the world wont reconciliate people who grow different with the years, mature at different rates (or dont mature at all), etc. No two people evolve at the same speed, and relationships are no different. On a large scale, some divorce is inevitable. Very much like 0% unemployment - it just wont happen - somebodys always in between jobs somewhere. Same thing for real-life, human relations. Shit happens.

And how would 2 sane mature adults who consciously recongnize at the same time that things wont work but still take their responsibilities towards their children, like Bruce Willis and Demi Moore, fit in yourdivorce = no character` equation?

But I just cant bring myself to imagine how I could use thedivorced` flag to cristal-ball the rest of the personality of someone I never met in person or have known for a long time. Your text gave me the impression that you could. I just wonder how. On my side, it does not seem as simple as that.

Hope this clears things up.


Please read my original post. I never said that if you divorce you are morally bankrupt. I said, “Why can’t we have standards for our Presidency? It is the most powerful position in the history of the world. I say the marriage vow is one of the most important promises that a man makes in his lifetime. If he willfully and brazenly breaks this promise, he is morally bankrupt.”
In fact, I have a higher regard for a couple who dissolve their marriage vows prior to any involvement with another person. If it isn’t working, come to a mutual understanding, get a divorce, then date others. If you screw around, try to hide it from your spouse, you have betrayed your marriage vows. That situation is far more reprehensible. For a President or a potential President to engage in that sort of deception, sends the wrong message. It shows a lack of character. The office carries various degrees of symbolism and influence. I have a serious problem if one child says, “Well, if the President can have illicit affairs, why can’t I?”
Are there situations where married couples have agreed to have extra-marital affairs? Yes. However, we are talking about the office of the Presidency. Again, perception, symbolism, and the ability of the President to set an example are factors that should not be ignored.
dan, it seems like I am more proactive about this. I see your figures and I think, “How can we change the situation?” How do we redefine the institution of marriage? There are many in our society who view marriage as a publicity stunt (aka britney spears) or something used for political cover (billyboy. I submit that we should elect people to the highest office who exhibit honesty and committment. People who honor their marriage vows. We have two fine examples in George H. and George W. Bush.

Hold on everyone before this post goes rocketing off on the wrong direction…!!!

The Demoncats are the one who may use this stuff against Kerry…NOT the Republicans…

Get a clue…

uhhhh… wasn’t reagan divorced? (yes, but he wasn’t morally bankrupt. he’s a special case) if it didn’t matter with reagan, it shouldnt matter with kerry

Ptr, demoncats? tsk tsk tsk… what would jesus do?

the fact is danh…the democrats are increasingly the party of the “secularists”…this is not my opinion…but established statistics;
Jesus would say “Repent and believe in ME” regardless of your political opinion…

I wonder if some of you have a problem with a Kerry affair (if that turns out to be true) but maybe didn’t have a problem with the Arnold “The Gropinator”?

Don’t we have high standards for our Governors too, or is it okay to fondle and molest women on a casual basis? Arnold was married during a lot of this time he was allegedly grabbing strangers’ boobs, etc.

Just wondering if there is a double standard at work here…

Frankly I wonder if this Kerry thing is real anymore. I guess we’ll see.

I am not shocked…and it doesn’t matter to me since I would NEVER vote democrat. I will say that having a full blown affair and sleeping with someone who is not your wife/husband… would seem to be a little more serious to me if I was married to that person.
But politics will be politics. People sin…if they repent and ask for forgiveness from the person they sin against and God…then they should be forgiven. WE all have screwed up.

In this case I don’t think it should matter to the democrats within the party since they are the party of the secularists and the christophobes.

Good point PtrDr.

Vote for Bush if you want a Born Again America:

“Get Right With Jesus, or Get the Hell Out!”

We need more lunatics in powerful positions.

From a DC insider’s point of view, the whole thing is a Clinton plant. See, the Clinton’s don’t want a Democrat to win this time and conflict Hillary in 2008, (They’re selfish that way.)

So they inject Clark into the race and give him all their manpower and all their dirt. Remember, Clark started this whole thing with his off-the-record remark to reporters? Where do you think he got the rumor? Hmmm

It seems that the Kerry folks got to the girl and her family, especially her father, who previously wanted to castrate Kerry but now lauds him. How much money is one’s daughter’s honor and credibility worth on the market today?

AvoidsRoids, the rumors are probably not sure. It seems she was involved with one of Kerry’s colleagues, and Clark shot his mouth off about rumors. At MOST, Kerry might have made a pass at her when they discussed an internship. The apparent reversal of the girl’s father is interesting. First, he called him a “sleazeball,” then appeared to change his story to support his daughter’s insistence that this never happened, then admitted that he and his wife thought the guy had zero character for flip-flopping on every issue! (They’re voting for Edwards.)

The rumors are not “true,” I meant to write.

In the Clintonian world, the truth doesn’t matter, only politics. This thing has their fingerprints all over it.

Brian, I tend to agree with you because I can’t imagine any self respecting woman willingly crawling in bed with someone whose father must have been a bloodhound. Onthe other hand, Ms. 57 Heinz did.