T Nation

Kerry alleged infidelity


#1

Looks like there is something brewing in the Democratic party, seems like another intern scandal!! This is why Dean is not dropping out.


#2

That doesn't mean that Dean shouldn't drop out.


#3

Who cares, so long as he didn't lie under oath about it? He's not an official of the U.S. obstructing a person's right to a fair trial.


#4

Brian,

You don't take a man's moral fortitude into consideration when deciding on a candidate?


#5

This should give Fox News a nice field day.


#6

Doogie,
All things being equal, I would rather have a candidate who is faithful to his wife, but there are so many other things that bear more on his ability to lead the country. I'll pick the adulterous guy who fights terrorists and funds schools in poverty-stricken areas over the good husband who wants to negotiate with Hamas.

Of course, I take moral fortitude into account, but in direct proportion to how it may apply to the public interest. For example, Clinton's adultery led (and yes I know, through a ridiculous Republican smear campaign) to his obstruction of the rights he swore to protect. So the private matter of sex did somehow bear on his public responsibilities.

There is an argument that public exposure of sexual indiscretion or vice merits resignation to maintain the dignity of the office. I'm not persuaded by that. I suppose if a scandal is so big that it's polluting the air with its offensive quality or otherwise deterring real Washington business, then I would rather the person step down, but not to restore dignity to the office, just so things can get done.


#7

It's a rumor, it seems to me like it's not going to pan out.

Anyway, lots of people have had affairs in the past, just like lots of people have been hooked on drugs and alcohol in the past.

For example George Bush.

This just shows the GOP has nothing positive to offer, only fear and negativity. Instead of digging up dirt on candidates, they should put more effort into digging up Osama Bin Laden or WMDs or maybe some JOBS.


#8

Fair enough. You just seemed so dismissive of it in your first post.


#9

Clinton got a blow job, Bush sniffed coke, so what?


#10

Kerry is trash. The odds in Vegas of him getting the nomination literally just halved. There will be a big TIME magazine story on this next issue. Maybe Edwards will win the nomination and we will have a decent presidential campaign season this year.


#11

what confuses me about this whole situation is that suppossedly general clark told reporters about this last week off the record...then why would he drop out if he knew this was going to happen he would have been the alternative to kerry in most peoples eyes?....big m


#12

what confuses me about this whole situation is that suppossedly general clark told reporters about this last week off the record...then why would he drop out if he knew this was going to happen he would have been the alternative to kerry in most peoples eyes?....big m


#13

Lumpy,
Actually the rumor seems to have started with Democrat Wesley Clark, who told reporters O-T-R, then one of them squealed to Matt Drudge, then Clark found out and immediately signalled his intention to endorse Kerry. That's what the sequence seems like.

Anyway, what are you worried about? You should keep your fingers crossed that it gives your party a last-minute chance to put up a candidate with some credibility!

From NYT on Saturday:

"In the morning, [John Kerry] stood at Second Ebenezer Baptist Church in Detroit with more than 50 black clergymen behind him. There, before giving a standard stump speech, Mr. Kerry apologized for missing an N.A.A.C.P. candidates' forum on Thursday night that only the Rev. Al Sharpton attended. Mr. Kerry said he had to campaign instead in Maine, which holds its caucuses on Sunday, "to pay them the same kind of respect I pay you by being here today."

"I just want to tell you head-on, because that's the kind of president you deserve, and that's the kind of person I am," Mr. Kerry said.

In fact, Mr. Kerry had left Maine in early afternoon and spent the evening raising money in New York."

Incredible that you don't want this guy to sink like a stone while there's still time!


#14

Standard Public Image Political maneuvers at work. Candidate admits his shortcomings before somebody else digs it up.

As a bonus, hell get a couple of sympathy votes because some suckers will feel more close to him, in the <i>Hey, hes like us! sense. Sometimes it only takes a little Image move to tip it over just a little bit more.

Yawn!


#15

Lumpy:

What makes you think this tabloid fodder was started or perpetuated by Republicans? Just as an observation, the people who would stand to gain most by the revelation at the current time are the Democratic candidates still in the race. Notice Dean has stayed in and turned up the level of his anti-Kerry rhetoric. Seems to me that if the Republicans were to control when this came out they would wait until Kerry had the nomination sewn up.


#16

The Democrats have extraordinary low expectations for their candidates. A goal that the majority of them have no problem meeting. Kerry is just the latest in a long line of them.

Does everyone not see him for what he is. A goldigger in his personal life and an extremely confused leader. His flip flops on military service vs. his voting record in congress cannot be ignored. I think the Republicans can't wait to run against him. How this guy could cheat on his meal ticket speaks volume about his arrogance.

My feeling is that they had two somwhat able candidates. Edwards and Lieberman. Niether have a chance.


#17

Hedo, Dan C., lumpy,

Why can't we have standards for our Presidency? It is the most powerful position in the history of the world. I say the marriage vow is one of the most important promises that a man makes in his lifetime. If he willfully and brazenly breaks this promise, he is morally bankrupt.
billy boy lowered the bar incredibly far. What is unacceptable to a democrat? Seriously, if the law and marriage can be subverted for political or personal expediency, is there anything sacred to a democrat?
I can hear it now, "It's his personal life, it doesn't matter?!?" Bullshit. Your personal life is the foundation from which you make your political decisions.
Am I surprised that the democrats seem to have put forward a man of questionable political (and maybe personal) character? No. It is sad that people bemoan the political system, while championing the most corrupt officials. You reap what you sow.
By the way, I think John Edwards is a decent man. He appears to be a man of integrity. Joe Lieberman also falls into this category. lumpy does not.

hillary/ted kennedy/jerrynadler/nancypelosi/algore/
billyboy in 2004!!!


#18

Unfortunate for us in most cases the figure in office is a direct representation of those that put him there. I want someone in office that has strong moral character. Where can you draw the line between what is acceptable and what is not when concerning the President or a Presidential candidate? If a man will cheat on his wife, then why would he not cheat on someone that he doesn?t share his bed with. I don?t necessarily blame Clinton, Hellery is pretty homely. People in public office spend the first year trying to keep the promises that they made, only to find out that they cannot. The next year or so they react to crises and try to keep things afloat. Then they try to get elected again with more promises. It is easy to complain, but what is the solution? In all seriousness, I think that it should be a requirement that the president have military experience. I mean Active duty not National Guard or Reserves. I think that if a person is going to hold the position of commander and chief they should be able to relate to men and women that they commit to any mission. My final point: The President should have enough self control to keep Mr. Happy out of the ?Cookie Box? and if not smart enough to not get caught!

Me Solomon Grundy


#19

Firstly they haven't proven anything. Secondly you never know what goes on behind closed doors. Maybe (not likely but it could happen) his wife knew about the other woman and didn't care, or maybe they had hot threesomes. What then? It's not cheating then, I don't think.

Morals. They have a lot to do with how you live the rest of your life. Especially things like sexual morals or religion.

Nixon was a Quaker. Quakers are pacifists. See any conflicts here?

Ollie North is a good God fearing guy and has never been proven to break his marriage vows. Of course he broke a few laws and subverted the Constitution.

Oskar Schindler was a hero and saved many Jewish lives during WWII. He was also a womanizer and his wife has a far dimmer view of him than most everyone else.

During the filming of Black Hawk Down, the Pentagon persuaded its producers to change the name of Army Ranger John Stebbins, portrayed by Ewan McGregor, because the true-life "patriot" had been convicted to a 30-year prison term for the sexual assault of a 12-year-old girl.

Hitler was widely believed to be a virgin to the day he died. I wouldn't want him to be my President.

I think who you fuck and why has little bearing on what you order for dinner, if you steal or not, or if you are honest in business. People are complex and are a mix of characteristics. A person might well be honest and "moral" in many aspects of their life but they have weaknesses in others. Unless the weaknesses end up causing illegal behavior I don't see how the realistically impact the other areas of a person's life.


#20

I say the marriage vow is one of the most important promises that a man makes in his lifetime. If he willfully and brazenly breaks this promise, he is morally bankrupt.

I just love these broad-sweeping arguments.

Lets see. Given the statistical 50%+ divorce rate...and, lets say half of the adult population marries eventually, how many millions ofmorally bankrupt` individuals do you end up with ?

Were your premises accurate, Id say youd be better off worrying about the armies of millions of morally bankrupt people than the ramblings of just one candidate drying his teeth on a platform.

OK. Enough with the reductio ad absurdum for now.