[quote]JaseHxC wrote:
This sub forum as a whole is a cess pool. Also, at no point did I claim that your beliefs are wrong and mine are right (oh no, I’m not allowed to use “right” or “wrong”) You’re entitled to voice your opinion, as I am mine.
As far as your take on all these words and ideals being religious institutions. Religion, like many other things, is a man made concept and any man has the right to reject it. In doing so, the words I choose and their context, religious or non, have no bearing on why I choose to use them.
Do I think that this world ever will be in a position to exist without such things again>? Likely not and thus there certainly is very little evidence to back up my theory. But I like to think we’d do ok (at least the open minded among us) and that’s good enough for me.[/quote]
My original comment was mostly anecdotal. And I never claimed you said anyone’s beliefs are right or wrong. Nor in fact did I claim your beliefs were wrong. I was just noting that they weren’t consistent.
You can certainly assign personal meaning to whatever words you want. You just should realize what resorting to a personal meaning for those terms really means. Great, they are relative to you, BUT what you were talking about was a collective vision of right and wrong, which is exactly religion. It’s a cake you can’t both have and eat. You denounce religion while trying to maintain belief in it’s good attributes. It’s a package deal.
Right, good, better, nice, whatever you call it, the concept is inherently a religious institution.
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No.[/quote]
Yup, in the absolute sense that is being discussed. You can have fairly secular relative meanings assigned to those words, but you then can’t use them the way they were being used.[/quote]
That is just a quantitative difference.
Whether good or bad is used in absolute terms by a church, when there are several competing churches, is just a few definitions less then when everyone makes up their own.
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Never mentioned any church, but…
the difference is that those fractured (non-absolute) groups still maintain absolute authority by (claim of) divine intervention. Something the individual in a no-religion society cannot do.
And I also strongly believe that society does not require government for it to function properly and create sustainable life for the inhabitants of this planet. [/quote]
And I also strongly believe that society does not require government for it to function properly and create sustainable life for the inhabitants of this planet. [/quote]
This idea is dumber than a bag of hair.
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Hey, don’t insult naturally occurring bacteria like that.
[quote]JaseHxC wrote:
Let’s pretend words don’t have to be used in their original “religious” context. What phrase should I have used instead of “unnecessary evil”? I’m sure you understood the point I was trying to make regardless of my apparently “religious” choice of wording.
I’ll try to explain myself again, a society without religion, government, etc is perfectly capable of functioning and allowing the human race to grow and prosper. I’ll take it a step further, we as humans would be far better off without such institutions.
I get what you were trying to say, but I think you dug a little to far into my comments in an attempt to manufacture an argument. Also, good and evil (morality in general) are human constructs forced upon us and blindly followed by the general populace.
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Seems like about once a year someone wades into PWI and I have to spin this sappy piece of shit record…
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AHAH!
Yall have to take it from here, I gotta head to the gym.
It was good to get back in PWI and shake off some mental rust. I hadn’t been in here in a while. Glad to see a good argument can still be had.
[quote]JaseHxC wrote:<<< I stand by what I said, whether I’m explaining it in a contradictory way or not. >>>[/quote]I jist love these guys I really do LOL!!! I can’t get any of them to stay in a discussion with me about epistemology though because so far they’ve all been smart enough to see rather quickly how logically self contradictory and full of faith their positions are.
Only Elder Forlife keeps swingin that Styrofoam sword which honors me because Elder Forlife is a very capable debater regardless of how wrong he is about everything he’s so very right about.
Pangloss ran away, even though he quite impressively actually recognized the school of philosophical thought I espouse, by it’s name and sub labels. The only unbeliever I have ever encountered who did so. Pat did the wild Navajo rain dance around the central core for a year, but failed to confront the main bulwark of my position. Oleena you ran away. Groo bailed on me. I could hear Bodyguard’s voice on the other side of the wall separating the kingdoms of light and darkness, but he ran away too.
Oh now hold on. The gentleman from Japan, Senior Cortes and I aren’t done yet I don’t believe. HE has nuzzled himself cheek to cheek right up to the truth of the all governing kingship of the living God, but refuses to open up that heart.
It most definitely is not that I’m so brilliant and these folks are dullards. It’s that they come to see that even by their own standards their position of autonomous human reason is no more objectively defensible than my position of willful surrender to the most high God and His Christ.
Now here comes this JaseHxC kid all fulla self confident cockiness repeating for the one millionth time the same canned fallacious intellectual disaster I’ve addressed over and over again here. To his credit he’s honest enough to say he doesn’t care if it’s contradictory or not. Bless God that’s how it is!! Very good buddy. You’ve never once considered the foundations of your thought either. Just like the rest of these people. Here’s a clue. Every single thing you ACTUALLY believe is in stark contradiction to every single thing you SAY you believe.
See, you and I believe many of the same things. I know why. You don’t wanna know why.
[quote]JaseHxC wrote:<<< I stand by what I said, whether I’m explaining it in a contradictory way or not. >>>[/quote]I jist love these guys I really do LOL!!! I can’t get any of them to stay in a discussion with me about epistemology though because so far they’ve all been smart enough to see rather quickly how logically self contradictory and full of faith their positions are. Only Elder Forlife keeps swingin that Styrofoam sword which honors me because Elder Forlife is a very capable debater regardless of how wrong he is about everything he’s so very right about.
Pangloss ran away, even though he quite impressively actually recognized the school of philosophical thought I espouse, by it’s name and sub labels. The only unbeliever I have ever encountered who did so. Pat did the wild Navajo rain dance around the central core for a year, but failed to confront the main bulwark of my position. Oleena you ran away. Groo bailed on me. I could hear Bodyguard’s voice on the other side of the wall separating the kingdoms of light and darkness, but he ran away too.
Oh now hold on. The gentleman from Japan, Senior Cortes and I aren’t done yet I don’t believe. HE has nuzzled himself cheek to cheek right up to the truth of the all governing kingship of the living God, but refuses to open up that heart.
It most definitely is not that I’m so brilliant and these folks are dullards. It’s that they come to see that even by their own standards their position of autonomous human reason is no more objectively defensible than my position of willful surrender to the most high God and His Christ.
Now here comes this JaseHxC kid all fulla self confident cockiness repeating for the one millionth time the same canned fallacious intellectual disaster I’ve addressed over and over again here. To his credit he’s honest enough to say he doesn’t care if it’s contradictory or not. Bless God that’s how it is!! Very good buddy. You’ve never once considered the foundations of your thought either. Just like the rest of these people. Here’s a clue. Every single thing you ACTUALLY believe is in stark contradiction to every single thing you SAY you believe.
See, you and I believe many of the same things. I know why. You don’t wanna know why.[/quote]
lol.
You always make me think “this is what my posts would be like if I didn’t write like English was my third language”
[quote]JaseHxC wrote:
Institutions, both religious and marital are the downfall of society. It’s 2012 people, anyone who has a need for belief in a higher power or the need to be legally attached to someone in order to be happy are fools.[/quote]
Government is, at heart, a religious institution.[/quote]
And I also strongly believe that society does not require government for it to function properly and create sustainable life for the inhabitants of this planet. I only mentioned religious/marital as they were the most pertinent to this story, but any structured institution is an unnecessary evil for continued survival.[/quote]
I see.
There, have a unicorn with that.
Seriously, think just a little bit more about this (not about the semantics either) and you’ll figure out that this is about as logical as saying that a submarine either has to sink or rise to some degree at all times because it’s not made out of the water it’s swimming in and thus doesn’t have the same density as said water… Makes perfect sense to some, but there’s just this tiny little problem with the whole thing.
[quote]JaseHxC wrote:
Institutions, both religious and marital are the downfall of society. It’s 2012 people, anyone who has a need for belief in a higher power or the need to be legally attached to someone in order to be happy are fools.[/quote]
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:<<< You always make me think “this is what my posts would be like if I didn’t write like English was my third language”[/quote]hmmm… =] I’m gonna cautiously receive this as about two thirds of a compliment and give you one whole thank you? I think? And say to God be all the glory.
For the record my church has plenty of interracial couples. Not just black and white either, but there are some of those. The image and likeness of God as created in man has literally nothing to do with physical characteristics, anthropological origins or geographical roots. It has everything to do with high spiritual being, derivative intellectual function and moral agency.
In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek (or black or white). All men (and women) are one in Him. The people to whom I trust my life and the spiritual direction of my family are almost all black. I would kill or die for them and they for me. I love them.
[quote]JaseHxC wrote:
Let’s pretend words don’t have to be used in their original “religious” context. What phrase should I have used instead of “unnecessary evil”? I’m sure you understood the point I was trying to make regardless of my apparently “religious” choice of wording.
I’ll try to explain myself again, a society without religion, government, etc is perfectly capable of functioning and allowing the human race to grow and prosper. I’ll take it a step further, we as humans would be far better off without such institutions.
I get what you were trying to say, but I think you dug a little to far into my comments in an attempt to manufacture an argument. Also, good and evil (morality in general) are human constructs forced upon us and blindly followed by the general populace.
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Seems like about once a year someone wades into PWI and I have to spin this sappy piece of shit record…
John Lennon is an overrated cunt. I can’t believe you rolled out his crap. On second thought I take that back, because I know there are fools who feed into his bullshit.
[quote]Soulja874 wrote:
Here we go again…
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I have an idea:
Don’t go to that weird church. No one is making you.
In the mean time, their beliefs are their beliefs. Leave them alone.[/quote]
The voice of reason. If they don’t approve of my taste in women fuck em. There are a lot of other churches that I’m sure would be a lot more fun. Besides when I go to have church I wouldn’t want to be around people like that anyway.
Damn and I thought I was exposed to all the bitterness possible reading some of the shit in PWI.
Who are you two exactly? You don’t have to buy into the man’s political ideologies but to use those words on a guy who was one of the best musical scribes of all-time and forever changed the history of music forever is just disrespectful.
Woah kind of a stretch to say it ‘pissed me off.’ It didn’t piss me off more than it kind of shocked me I’d read that from an apparently intelligent adult.
I guess it shouldn’t actually surprise me considering you were one of the more vocal posters in that Beatles Are Overrated thread awhile back. I took that as bitter American exceptional-ism but using the C-word like that man? I’m disappointed.
