T Nation

Ken Shamrock vs. James Toney


... sometime soon, somewhere, for some promotion. (They haven't nailed down silly little details like that just yet.)


They're going at it under special rules: Eight three-minute rounds with mandatory stand-ups after 30 seconds of being on the ground.

Shamrock used to be The Man, like a decade or two ago, but it's just kinda sad at this point. And I have no clue why Toney, once again, wants to get into the cage with an MMA fighter (let alone another legend with a strong grappling background).

Is there any reason to care about this, other than the unfortunate freak show entertainment-factor (which Shamrock basically admits to it being)?


No, but it'll be one hell of a freakshow. I'll watch it, should be hilarious! Never really loved Shamrock and Toney with his boxing is greater than MMA shit is a funny guy. Both guys do some funny shit talking so they shouldn't have any problems getting the fight all hyped up, all I hope is that it goes past round 1 or 2 so we can really see some hilarious shit.


With the 30 second time limit on the ground, this favors Toney greatly. Shamrock will basically have to get him down and immediately go for a leg with the intention of injuring him to get the quick tap. However, since Shamrock is what the lay person calls "dumb" I see him trying to stand and resulting in even less of a functioning brain.


An over the hill boxer against an over the hill mma fighter...yawn. But I do think that Shamrock is further over the hill. And I also think that Shamrock harbors delusions of standing toe to toe with Toney and of course if that happens he'll be knocked out. But even more importantly who really cares?


According to Sherdog, Shamrock lost two of the three fights he was in last year, both by TKO/strikes in the first round. So, yeah, definitely not looking good for him here. Especially since it actually sounds like he plans on standing up with Toney "to make it a little more competitive."

It's just a bummer because I remember seeing him in his first UFC when the announcers described him as having his own Japanese cartoon show, action figures, the whole nine. This is almost as bad as seeing Hulk Hogan doing those goofy Rent-A-Center commercials.


Shamrock has completely tarnished any good aspect of his legacy he has left with his actions in and out of the cage over the past few years. Not that I was a huge fan of his to begin with and I'm not sold on him really being a forefather of the sport as he didn't contribute anything overly special, but yeah, I'd like to see him win and send Mushmouth Toney packing, just don't see it happening.


Kinda agree. Definitely puts an asterisk, like, Shamrock - that dude who used to be awesome a lifetime ago.


He was right up there, along with Royce Gracie, to show the importance/dominance of submission grappling. When the UFC first started and it was literally "style vs. style", a ton of fighters underappreciated or flat-out weren't aware of the ground game. Shamrock's strong submissions and takedowns changed a lot of peoples' perspectives.

Fighting aside, his Lion's Den pretty much ran shit back then. It produced a ton of title holders. It was basically the "Greg Jackson's Camp" of the early UFC days, and that's thanks in large part to Shamrock's coaching (which was super-edited in his TUF season).

Not trying to bust your balls, man (and really I'm not trying to come off as a Shamrock superfan, ha.) Just saying, the guy's a legit legend in the sport. It's not like he's just another Teila Tuli one-shot wonder. :wink:


I see those points Chris, what I'm saying is that while he did help usher in grappling, Royce will always be the preeminent grappler from the earlier era. Shamrock for all his grappling prowess and mastery of leg locks, outside of a heel hook over Patrick Smith and a knee bar (I think) over Kimo never scored a leg submission victory outside of Pancrase where leg locks were much easier to secure.

What I'm saying is that, I think Ken could have been easily been replaced in the early days by someone else who was equally skilled. Perhaps it's just my dislike of him influencing my opinion, but I firmly do believe he's negligible in the sense that it easily could have been someone else in his position.


Hahaha! That sounds like it's going to be a fun fight to watch.

I still don't get why Toney persists on fighting MMA guys. Well at least this time, he won't have his ass whipped in the first round.


It's because he made no money in his last fight. He owes a tonne of back taxes and the IRS confiscated the majority of his purse for the Couture fight. He's going the MMA route because it's a quick pay day win or lose. The money may not be as good as boxing, but if he were to take a dive in boxing or lose legitimately just for the sake of money, his reputation in his own sport is further tarnished leading to less money and potentially not being booked for fights.

The saddest part of this whole thing is that if Toney wins, the archaic boxing promoters, sports casters, and MMA critics will all point to how a boxer defeated an MMA legend, disregarding the fact that he's far past his prime and has shown a considerable lack of strategy in his most recent fights. I'm all for fights between boxers and MMA fighters, but they have to be between current champions and promoted in a legitimate way, it's the only way to take the "freak show" factor out of the equation.


He's not making any money or getting any fights in boxing. Last I heard he's making $20,000 a fight to fight nobodies in small venues. Boxing has just passed him by and to get a legitimate payday he's going to have to go outside of the sport.

I don't know, I was entertained by people telling me MMA trumped boxing when Toney lost his last MMA fight.


I bet Shamrock can get the kneebar in less than 30 seconds, but it's simply stupid to try to keep standing with Toney even if he is over the hill


Is this to air on PPV?


To be honest this just makes me sad.

James Toney was an incredible fighter and a joy to watch, but these sort of novelty fights with athletes well past their best do nothing for me.

All I hope when these events come up is that the fighter I admired and respected doesn't get hurt too badly before he finally calls it quits.


Then they both can be fed to Severn.


Haha I think this will be ok, I'll watch it because it will be entertaining. The rules have obviously been twisted to favor james knocking ken out, but let's be honest; any mma fighter with his salt would just take the guy down and sub or pound him out. I mean james has no ground game so I don't see this being a problem. I'm excited, not for the legitimacy of the sport, but for the sheer funkiness of this fight.


I agree, my world would be emptier without freakshows, let them have their places, imagine if all events were serious, it wouldn't be fun!


And ultimately that is what the pro game s all about. Entertainment.


Yup, the japanese really knew how to do a show on the golden ages.


Speaking of freak shows...