T Nation

Kel-Tec Sub2000 vs. Hi Point 995


#1

I'm looking to purchase one of these for shooting and home defense. I was going to buy the Hi point, but the dealer I usually buy from said that he has had nothing but trouble from the ones he's sold and reccomended the Keltec. I've read plenty of reviews and they all seem positive, so now I'm unsure which I want to get. Any owners out there care to help tip me one way or another?

Here's my thoughts so far:

995
Pros: $40 bucks cheaper
Comes with piccitany rails
Seems good even stock out of box
Accessories are cheap
Solid reviews

Cons: Weighs more than Keltec
Longer than Keltec

sub2000
Pros: Good reccomendation
Light and flexible
m4like collapsable stock

Cons: More expensive
Would have to purchase rail system
Accessories are expensive
Reviews claim stock sights suck


#2

I own a Hi Point 995TS (is this the model you are looking at?) and I took it out for my first range visit recently. We actually bought 2, one for me and one for my brother.

Mine, out of the box, was shooting 3 inch groups at ~25 yards but way to the right. By brothers was dead on out of the box. Ran factory ammo and reloads through both, about 150-200 rounds through each without one hiccup.

Fired slow and deliberate and as fast as possible and there were no issues with either rifle.

Rails are very useful. Already have a forward grip and an ACOG (borrowed from my AR-180b) on it. Solid build quality, reliable and in my opinion, pretty cool looking!

Things that could use improvement: mags are difficult to put in quickly until you get the hang of it as they go a little too deep into the grip in my opinion. Also, trigger takes a little getting used to.

All in all, for the price, a really nice addition to my collection with no major complaints! Basically, it goes BANG! every time!


#3

I have a few friends who are cops that I go shooting with on occasions, and have gone gun shopping with. They always told me Do not get a Hi-point that shit will blow up in your hands. I would say go with the Keltec, though I have no experience with them personally, based entirely off what cops have told me about Hi-point.


#4

Best part about HiPoint is the warranty!


#5

That is the model I was looking at. The magazine is another issue as the keltec can use glock mags up to a 32rd magazine whereas the hipoint is stuck at I think 10rds? The warranty does sound awesome. Thanks for the feedback.


#6

why would you want a rifle for home defense? are you planning to snipe them from 100 yards away? why not a 12ga shotgun or .45 ACP?


#7

Ask yourself, How much is my life worth.

Then go buy yourself a shotgon.

Hipoint is the quickie mart of guns


#8

It's not really a rifle as it is chambered in 9mm, .40, and/or .45. I have a .40XD and a 12 gauge mossberg already. This is mainly something to shoot that's fun and cheap, but can also serve as home defense.


#9

A rifle would be tough to use in an actual home defense situation. harder to swing around, cant keep it in a drawer next to your bed... etc. Good luck


#10

I agree with the general consensus. Do not get a rifle for home defense. A Mossberg 500a would be suffice. Slug or Buckshot,your choice. If you really wanted a rifle,why would you get a 9mm? Be sure to to get a folding stock aswell.


#11

It's not really a rifle as it is short and light. I have plenty of experience with room clearing and MOUT using an m4 so really it wouldn't be tough. I have several long rifles, 2 shotguns, and 2 handguns so this is more of an addition that I'm looking to use at the range, but is still viable IMO as home defense especially if equipped with CCO and/or laser. As to the caliber, the idea is that .40 cal is fun to shoot and cheaper than other rifle ammo. Obviously, buckshot to the chest at 7yds. is going to be superior, but by the same token .40cal hollowpoint is going to be superior to 5.56 FMJ.

Anyway, the point wasn't whether a shotgun is superior inside the home or a handgun, but whether or not the sub2000 is better than the hipoint 995 as an overall weapon.


#12

Im semi-surprised by you. You have experience with am m4 so I assume military, 2 hand guns and 2 shotguns, but don't know enough about weapons to realize both weapons you mentioned are retarded? They have none of the advantages of a rifle and all the downfalls of a pistol. Build yourself an ar-15.

quick edit: However to answer your question, I'd get the keltec before I ever put a hipoint in my hands.


#13

A .40 is never superior to a 5.56 round unless you are counting in the physical size (pistol being smaller than a rifle or AR pistol) of the weapon firing it. The temporary wound channel of the 5.56 combined with the permanent wound channel is far more devastating than any .40 round. A 5.56 round also has far less chance of overpenetration and of traveling through multiple walls. A 5.56 will also laugh at body armor (unless it's level IV) where even a level I will stop a .40. Lasers? They are good for psychological intimidation. I hope you aren't relying on a laser over basic fundamentals of marksmanship. On a related note, if the person or persons are in your house having entered in a violent manner, it's past psychological intimidation. It is time to open up on them. There is nothing better in this world in a room or hallway than a shotgun with buckshot.

Back on topic... I wouldn't buy either of those. Spring for a glock, an XD, whatever you like. There is a reason the guns you mentioned are so cheap. If you do buy a hi point or kel-tec, take it outside and throw it around, kick it a few times, shoot the crappiest ammo you can find. Throw it down a couple more times. Shoot it again. The reason for this is Murphy's Law. If something can go wrong, it will. If you don't feel the gun can take that abuse, it isn't for defense. Scenario: you need a gun and it's the only one around. If it can take the abuse, it will function as needed.

If you has said "I want a gun that is cheap and cheap to shoot and I have others to defend myself with", I would say "yes" buy a hi point or kel-tec.


#14

Weapons are investments. Don't buy a weapon because it's "cheap" if you will be trusting your life to it. Just keep the shotgun you have nearby for home-defense. Or, if you're not worried about hitting anyone or anything around you, then a real rifle (not one chambered for pistol ammo) such as the AR-15 someone already suggested. Although, for home defense, I can hardly imagine a scenario where a 12 gauge would not be the superior choice.

A short-barreled 12 gauge with a bright flashlight mounted to is arguably the best you can do for home-defense. Maybe mounting a laser on it as well to take out some of the skill required to aim it, as in life-or death situations even close-range targeting can be extremely difficult. Granted, a lot of people consider lasers junk, especially on a shotgun, but I don't see how they could hurt in close-range situations.

If you want to get a Kel-Tec or Hi-Point for fun, go for it. It could be a lot of fun at the range or something. But I doubt many people would advise relying on one in a life-or-death scenario.


#15

6 years in the infantry with tours to Afghanistan. I've been handling firearms since I was a little child. Again, this is something specific about two specific weapons. Are they both cheap? Yes, but from the reviews I've read they aren't complete shit either. Am I expecting them to be as nice as an ar15? No, I'm not.

As to the later post concerning 5.56 and .40cal. Up close, i.e. inside a house, I would much prefer a .40 with hollowpoints. I've seen individuals shot with a 5.56 act like nothing happened to them. Yes, a FMJ will go through most bodyarmor and yes 5.56 will kill someone. However, it's not the most efficient and if they aren't wearing bodyarmor and the bullet doesn't come into contact with something fairly solid a clean pass through is most likely what's going to happen. Now, 7.62 is another story altogether.

I have some nice weapons already, I'm looking for something inexpensive that will be inexpensive to fire and either of these seems to fit the bill. I like the m4, it's a nice little weapon...mind you I'm in favor of searching for a new standard issue weapon, but it's nice all the same. I have no desire to drop the money on one, however, and IMPE it's not the caliber I want inside my house.


#16

This. It's something to add to the repotoire(sp?) but not something that I plan on using as a first or even second choice should that type of situation occur. The entire reason for this post is that even though I am admittedly looking at some cheap weapons I'd still like to ensure that it "will" work.


#17

I think you might be throwing some people off because in your first post you said "I'm looking to purchase one of these for shooting and home defense"

When you say that, people are automatically think "12 gauge" and likely disregard "lower end" firearms.

In that case I'd go with the KelTec. A lot of people here in CA have the SU-16 and like them. Granted, most were probably purchased before the "loophole" that allows us to get AR-15s, AKs, etc was known widespread (it's not really a "loophole", but that's what the gun-grabbers like to call it).