T Nation

Keep Missing 5RM


#1

I keep missing my 5RM on squats and deadlifts on the first week of each cycle on Jim's beginner variation (full body). www.jimwendler.com/2011/09/531-for-a-beginner/. I have been doing so for around my last 2-3 cycles. However I am progressing fine on my 3RM+ and 1RM+ weeks.

What should I do?

(FYI I have been missing the 5th rep)


#2

Either the weight is too heavy or your conditioning is in the toilet.

How many reps are you hitting in the 3 and 1 weeks?


#3

3 and 3 most of the time. I just play it by how I feel on the day.


#4

3 and 3 most of the time.


#5

Your TM is off. Way off.


#6

^^ Yep.

What is your 1RM, TM, and work set weights? What does your assistance look like? How long have you been running the program?


#7

Take 85-90% of the numbers you have and start again from there. As Jim said, your TM is way off.

And yes it will feel light.


#8

Coming off an injury I re-started at 60%!!! I am rolling now - for the last 6 months. If you are using the rep formula from the books it should become clear that going light, real light in some circumstances, is a good thing.

If you focus on insane rep records and keep breaking them - guess what: your getting stronger.
You can also focus on form using that many reps.


#9

-My deadlift 5rm actually went really smooth last week and I hit 6 reps. It was probably a form issue + fatigue, I realise I wasn’t pulling close enough to my body before.

-My TMs (kg):
Squat: 152 x 0.9
Deadlift: 163 x 0.9
Bench: 106.5 x 0.9 (bench is going fine, hitting 8 reps, 5/6 reps, 3 reps respectively in cycles on each of the 3 weeks)
Press: 65 x 0.9 (press too, is going fine)

-I’m about 7 months in and 2 cycles from hitting my beginner targets in the gym for the squat, bench and press. Because of the nature of this program I’m quite a way away from pulling 4 plates in the gym on my deadlift.

-What did happen this week was that I missed my 3RM for squats (122.5kg x3) at 1 full rep and one rep not to depth. Should I take a deload on the squats.

Jim said that my TM was way off, could he elaborate? What should I do next?


#10

[quote]7P31996 wrote:
-My deadlift 5rm actually went really smooth last week and I hit 6 reps. It was probably a form issue + fatigue, I realise I wasn’t pulling close enough to my body before.

-My TMs (kg):
Squat: 152 x 0.9
Deadlift: 163 x 0.9
Bench: 106.5 x 0.9 (bench is going fine, hitting 8 reps, 5/6 reps, 3 reps respectively in cycles on each of the 3 weeks)
Press: 65 x 0.9 (press too, is going fine)

-I’m about 7 months in and 2 cycles from hitting my beginner targets in the gym for the squat, bench and press. Because of the nature of this program I’m quite a way away from pulling 4 plates in the gym on my deadlift.

-What did happen this week was that I missed my 3RM for squats (122.5kg x3) at 1 full rep and one rep not to depth. Should I take a deload on the squats.

Jim said that my TM was way off, could he elaborate? What should I do next?[/quote]

Form is the be all and end all when it comes to the big 4 lifts. What helped my DL the most was switching to 5s PROs and reseting after every rep, this keeps my back straight, hips back, and core tight. Resetting every DL rep also keeps the bar at the right distance every single time.

Jim wants you to lower your TM so you stop missing reps. My buddy and I use the same 385lbs TM for DL, I’m 190lbs and he is 270lbs. When we first started he could barely hold onto 450 for a single, 3 weeks ago we decided to test him 1 rep again. The result? He ripped 585 off the floor with no belt. So using a TM never higher than 385lbs he pulled 585 with no belt, that is a 200 pound difference. If you have good bar speed and correct form you will reap all the benefits.


#11

[quote]Mike PVD wrote:

[quote]7P31996 wrote:
-My deadlift 5rm actually went really smooth last week and I hit 6 reps. It was probably a form issue + fatigue, I realise I wasn’t pulling close enough to my body before.

-My TMs (kg):
Squat: 152 x 0.9
Deadlift: 163 x 0.9
Bench: 106.5 x 0.9 (bench is going fine, hitting 8 reps, 5/6 reps, 3 reps respectively in cycles on each of the 3 weeks)
Press: 65 x 0.9 (press too, is going fine)

-I’m about 7 months in and 2 cycles from hitting my beginner targets in the gym for the squat, bench and press. Because of the nature of this program I’m quite a way away from pulling 4 plates in the gym on my deadlift.

-What did happen this week was that I missed my 3RM for squats (122.5kg x3) at 1 full rep and one rep not to depth. Should I take a deload on the squats.

Jim said that my TM was way off, could he elaborate? What should I do next?[/quote]

Form is the be all and end all when it comes to the big 4 lifts. What helped my DL the most was switching to 5s PROs and reseting after every rep, this keeps my back straight, hips back, and core tight. Resetting every DL rep also keeps the bar at the right distance every single time.

Jim wants you to lower your TM so you stop missing reps. My buddy and I use the same 385lbs TM for DL, I’m 190lbs and he is 270lbs. When we first started he could barely hold onto 450 for a single, 3 weeks ago we decided to test him 1 rep again. The result? He ripped 585 off the floor with no belt. So using a TM never higher than 385lbs he pulled 585 with no belt, that is a 200 pound difference. If you have good bar speed and correct form you will reap all the benefits.
[/quote]

I don’t get what you’re saying in the last paragraph. From what I understand you don’t think I should add weight to my TM?


#12

Correct, lower the weight. The only thing worse than missing reps is getting injured.


#13

[quote]Mike PVD wrote:
Correct, lower the weight. The only thing worse than missing reps is getting injured.[/quote]

10 from my calculated max or my training max?


#14

Like everybody else is saying you need to lower your TM until you can reliably get at least 10 reps on the 5+ week, at least 8 on the 3+ week and at least 6 on the 1+ week. Once you can do that you can add weight for the next cycle. Also, don’t forget about the 5 forward 3 back strategy. I’ve been on 531 since November 2013 and haven’t missed a rep yet.


#15

[quote]7P31996 wrote:

[quote]Mike PVD wrote:
Correct, lower the weight. The only thing worse than missing reps is getting injured.[/quote]

10 from my calculated max or my training max?[/quote]

The difference between taking it off the TM and taking it off the 1RM is about 1kg/100kg. So do what’s easiest.


#16

[quote]7P31996 wrote:
-My deadlift 5rm actually went really smooth last week and I hit 6 reps. It was probably a form issue + fatigue, I realise I wasn’t pulling close enough to my body before.

-My TMs (kg):
Squat: 152 x 0.9
Deadlift: 163 x 0.9
Bench: 106.5 x 0.9 (bench is going fine, hitting 8 reps, 5/6 reps, 3 reps respectively in cycles on each of the 3 weeks)
Press: 65 x 0.9 (press too, is going fine)

-I’m about 7 months in and 2 cycles from hitting my beginner targets in the gym for the squat, bench and press. Because of the nature of this program I’m quite a way away from pulling 4 plates in the gym on my deadlift.

-What did happen this week was that I missed my 3RM for squats (122.5kg x3) at 1 full rep and one rep not to depth. Should I take a deload on the squats.

Jim said that my TM was way off, could he elaborate? What should I do next?[/quote]

Its not a 5 rep max set!! Its a set of 5+ reps at a certain percentage of a training max. Buy the books, and follow the program.

You are most certainly not following the program. You shouldn’t be missing any reps for the first few MONTHS on the program. And by months i mean at least 6 months.


#17

[quote]7P31996 wrote:
-My TMs (kg):
Squat: 152 x 0.9
Deadlift: 163 x 0.9
Bench: 106.5 x 0.9 (bench is going fine, hitting 8 reps, 5/6 reps, 3 reps respectively in cycles on each of the 3 weeks)
Press: 65 x 0.9 (press too, is going fine)[/quote]

So, your 1rm for squat is 170? As mentioned above, your TM is off. Just use 80 or 85%

[quote]
-I’m about 7 months in and 2 cycles from hitting my beginner targets in the gym for the squat, bench and press. Because of the nature of this program I’m quite a way away from pulling 4 plates in the gym on my deadlift.[/quote]

So, you started with a 1rm of 130? You added 40kg so far? (assuming your new 1rm is 170 in theory)

[quote]
-What did happen this week was that I missed my 3RM for squats (122.5kg x3) at 1 full rep and one rep not to depth. Should I take a deload on the squats.[/quote]

On second or third week?

[quote]
Jim said that my TM was way off, could he elaborate? What should I do next?[/quote]

Lower your TM for the squat if the rest is progressing.


#18

[quote]JFG wrote:

[quote]7P31996 wrote:
-My TMs (kg):
Squat: 152 x 0.9
Deadlift: 163 x 0.9
Bench: 106.5 x 0.9 (bench is going fine, hitting 8 reps, 5/6 reps, 3 reps respectively in cycles on each of the 3 weeks)
Press: 65 x 0.9 (press too, is going fine)[/quote]

So, your 1rm for squat is 170? As mentioned above, your TM is off. Just use 80 or 85%

[quote]
-I’m about 7 months in and 2 cycles from hitting my beginner targets in the gym for the squat, bench and press. Because of the nature of this program I’m quite a way away from pulling 4 plates in the gym on my deadlift.[/quote]

So, you started with a 1rm of 130? You added 40kg so far? (assuming your new 1rm is 170 in theory)

[quote]
-What did happen this week was that I missed my 3RM for squats (122.5kg x3) at 1 full rep and one rep not to depth. Should I take a deload on the squats.[/quote]

On second or third week?

[quote]
Jim said that my TM was way off, could he elaborate? What should I do next?[/quote]

Lower your TM for the squat if the rest is progressing.[/quote]

Actually its 152kg my work max is 90% of that.
For my deadlift? About 163kg in theory
I missed squats again on my 2nd week.
I’m thinking I should take 10kg off my theoretical training max for squats, would this be a good idea?


#19

not trying to bust your balls here but it sounds like you really don’t know what your actual max is to get the correct tm you should not be missing the required reps, just like Jim told you your tm is way off, you should just go to gym and get your actual max then you can get your training set up and then just enjoy the ride.


#20

Read the damn book.