T Nation

Keep Going Too Low With Arimidex, Need Dosing Suggestions


#1

So I’ve had another thread on here and I would prefer not to go into specifics as to why I have High E2 while having natural test and why I’m using Arimidex (my doc prescribed it) etc etc. I purely would like some Arimidex dosing advice keeping in mind I’m taking Arimidex ALONE and nothing else as my total test levels top 1100 Ng/Dl regularly.

Basically my E2 was as high as 78pg/ml naturally and my doctor prescribed Arimidex. The Arimidex has helped me immensely as I got my life back. My libido came back, my energy, everything.

However I keep feeling like I’m going too low and also had a couple bloods to confirm. Now I can just tell by the feeling but I’ve been lowering my dose, spreading it out more and more but I still seem to keep slipping lower than the sweet spot.

Right now I’m at 0.125mg E3D and even that seems like it’s too much for me? About a week ago my E2 was at 24 pg/ml and I stopped dosing for about 7 days due to some joint popping and noticing my libido slipping. This is when I restarted on 0.125mg E3D. The first dose was good, felt good, morning wood was good. 3 days later I had another dose and it’s now one day after my last dose and I’m noticing decreased libido and my joints starting to get stiff and clicky.

I even got the Arimidex compounded into 0.125mg caps.

So I need help I’m not really sure what to try next. I can only get blood tests every so often because here in Australia doctors just can’t issue them continuously otherwise they get looked into for suspicious activity. I’m thinking the following:

  1. Should I wait a few days until I feel libido and joint clicking go away and then re-dose and try E4D? This usually doesn’t take long and everything goes back to normal thankfully really fast.

  2. Can Arimidex be taken e5d or even e6d? Like would this even be a viable dosage schedule especially with such a small amount like 0.125mg? I feel like I’ve been going up and down and it’s not good, I really need to find a dosage and schedule that works for me and keeps those levels stable fast.

  3. Is it even possible to get the E2 levels stable when I’m not on any exogenous testosterone?

Would appreciate any help. By the way I have looked into this for over a year, I’m not really looking to be lectured about taking Arimidex because I haven’t felt as good as I have in the last two months since almost two years ago… even if I have been dropping too low ever now and then, overall it’s been better. I’ve been able to have sex again and function like a normal male! I’ve never been this happy.

So if I could get some guidance as to what to try dosage wise next, I’d be very appreciative. Thanks!


#2

Mix 1mg of arimidex, emptied from the caps, into 10ml of vodka (measured with a syringe). It helps to warm the vodka a little. Then you can draw up 1ml to get a dose of .1mg or 0.5 ml to get 0.05mg or whatever. Take it orally! Don’t shoot vodka!


#3

I actually was considering this. I have 5ml vials and a dropper that does 28 drops per ml ready to go.

So I can either use the 0.125mg caps in 1ml vodka solution or I also have 1mg pills that I could dissolve.

Obviously the 0.125mg will be easier to dispense into a ml but how would I take 0.06mg if I dissolve 1mg tablet into 1ml of vodka?

Also are you saying that perhaps 0.06mg EOD would be better than me dosing 0.125mg E4/5D since it looks like I’m pretty responsive to it?

Thanks man


#4

if you break one of your 0.125mg caps into 1mL of vodka then you can take 0.5mL (half of the mix) and save the other half for the next dose. I find it hard to dissolve more than 1mg/10mL (but I suspect 1/8 would work too) so if you want to do the 1mg tablet in 10mL that would give you quite a few doses, each 0.6mL.

You should dose arimidex at least every 3.5 days since the half life in your system is about 2 days. Any longer than that and you won’t have a very steady response. EOD would be ideal.


#5

Thanks I think I’ll try that EOD then.

Say if I wanted to try to have the same dose by dissolving 1mg tablet into 1ML of vodka how would I go about working out the dosing? Is there a simple formula.

Also 0.06mg seems so small, it’s so hard for me to accept that this amount would even have an effect on me. It can still have a good effect right?

I’ve read heaps on over responding, and I don’t know if I am one but I experience the brief libido boost before losing that feeling and also getting clicky knees.


#6

Electron responded similarly to what I was going to say. I would microdose EOD for stability purposes and to prevent crashing. I microdose every day but unlike you, am also on trt and inject EOD. I still think its the best course of action for you.

I dissolve 5 mg adex in 5 ml of vodka. I know that my dropper dispenses 19 drops for 1 ml. 19 drops therefore = 1 mg.

I use one drop orally per day or 1/19 mg = 0.053 mg. It still isn’t perfect and I occasionally need a 2 drop day.


#7

Interesting okay.

So if I dissolve 1mg in 1ml of vodka, then 2 drops would be 0.0714mg (2/28). I guess I could try that. It’s a little over half of 0.125mg but that shouldn’t matter too much I guess. Does the pill dissolve easily in the vodka?

Also can I ask why you microdose. Are you an overresponder? If you are. How did you come to that conclusion? I ask because I’m trying to work it out for myself.

On wed 23rd nov I was at 111pmol/L (30pg/ml) and I started 0.125 EOD. From there I had 5 doses where on the fifth dose I started feeling the low symptoms (I keep a log so I know what’s happening). So I stopped for exactly six days and had a blood test. On the 6th day my E2 was at 90pmol/L (25pg/ml). Two more 0.125mg doses after this E3D and I felt low again which brings me to today.

Is it safe to say I will benefit from the microdosing? I’ve been halting the Adex when I start to feel low, and that is what I think has kept me at bay although I’m probably on a bit of an E2 rollercoaster. It’s hard to know what would have happened if I kept dosing 0.125mg EOD in that scenario above. And it’s also hard to constantly get bloods in Australia. The medical authority body makes sure you can’t do that… but my E2 was as high as 288pmol/L (78pg/ml) in august this year and I don’t want to go back to feeling like shit!

Also last question. When you dispense it in the vodka where do you store it? Fridge?


#8

Yes it dissolves easily in vodka. I’d prepare the solution the day prior to using it though. Shake it well before using each time.

I am an over responder. I inject 50 mg test cyp EOD and started using the normal recommended dose of 1 mg/100 mg test ratio which came to 0.5mg adex EOD.

This worked for a while and then I began noticing a lack of vascularity as well as cold hands and cold feet. Estrogen is required for the mechanism of vasodilation, so I reduced my dose to 0.25 mg EOD. I felt ok here as well for a while, but eventually noticed that I felt very sleepy and flat emotionally. I don’t seem to ever experience any joint pain/popping joints that some men do. The 0.25 EOD of adex and 50 mg test cyp EOD left my e2 at 11 pg/ml. Not awful, but low in my opinion.

The “sweet spot” for me seems to be a very small range. Slightly too little estrogen and I get lethargic, sleepy, reduced vascularity, reduced libido, cold hands/feet, low level depression.

As soon as my e2 rises, emotionally I feel better, I become vascular again, my hands and feet get warm again, libido skyrockets, energy increases, but if left to increase too high and unchecked the first signs of high e2 I experience is a little adema in my face. Eventually I can’t fall asleep and I become easily agitated and aggressive.

I believe you will benefit from microdosing. Based on the above are you saying that your e2 left unchecked is 30 pg/ml? If so, at that level how do you feel? As I kept reading, it seems like if left unchecked it gets quite high, up to 78 pg/ml. Most feel best between 20-30 pg/ml.

You can store the solution at room temperature. The vodka keeps everything sterile. I would try microdosing starting with 2 drops EOD or the 0.072 mg dose. If that still leave your e2 feeling low, you could try one drop per day.

Unfortunately controlling e2 for many is extremely difficult. Our e2 levels are based on various factors as I’m sure you know; FT levels, aromatase enzyme levels, liver clearance rates and gut microbes are linked to estrogen break down as well. I’m certain there are probably more factors that we’re not entirely aware of and all of the above can fluctuate naturally, whereas all we’re attempting to control is aromatization rates via an aromatase inhibitor.


#9

You need to dose anastrozole EOD because of its half-life.

It take ~ 5 days to clear anastrozole from your system and about the same amount of time for a dose change to deliver final levels in your body. So you can’t be making a lot of short term changes based on how you feel.


#10

Thanks for all your help @Hostile!

I have 3 vials at the moment.

  1. has 1mg in 1ml of Vodka.
  2. has my 0.125mg powder (from the cap) in 2ml of vodka - however because the caps are so tight it’s hard not to lose some of the powder when I open it up
  3. last vial has an entire gel cap which contains 0.125mg inside. I am not even sure if the vodka will dissolve that gel cap, but I tried anyway lol.

I asked the pharmacy where I got my dropper from and they say it isn’t graduated, so I’m not using it. I got another from eBay but I am still counting how many drops in 1ML over and over again because I want to be completely accurate.

Thanks again!


#11

I know… but I am pretty responsive to it.

I can feel my libido coming and going and as soon as I feel that joint clickiness in the knees I don’t want to go any further.


#12

I still can’t get it right! After restarting I’ve had 3 x 0.0625mg doses with the vodka solution I’ve made.

At first dose I feel good, wellbeing, libido is decent… now after my second dose I start feeling that libido drop off again, and clicky joints in the knees (e.g If laying down and my legs are retracted, as soon as I stretch them out my knees will click) that’s the most noticeable but occasionally elbow/wrist will click but not very often. I don’t really have pain though, however I start to feel the tiredness and brain fog now, but I can still get it up fine and libido isn’t completely gone like it is when I have my normal high E2. I notice I urinate heaps more and feel thirsty all the time too. I’ve got real good at noticing the sweet spot, it’s so distinct you can’t miss it. And I know when I am low too.

I have limited blood tests to use wisely (in Aus you can’t get them yourself), so deciding/finding a good dose then testing would be ideal.

I’m starting to think maybe arimidex isn’t for me? I can’t seem to get it right. Or I am a real over responder and I just need to search for the correct dose for me?

What typical doses will an over responder take? I mean, I am already at 0.0625mg.

When I look at my logs, when I first started taking Arimidex, I took one 0.5mg dose, then 2 x 0.25mg doses and that brought me from 55pg/ml to <18pg/ml. I noted that I felt absolutely amazing, my morning wood, libido was on point, until I start to note that all disappearing.

Next thing I could do is try half the 0.0625mg dose which would be 0.03mg EOD, @Hostile… should I even bother? What dose do you take?


#13

You really need labs to confirm that your e2 is low. Don’t change your procol until you to. You need that stable data to know what to do next, otherwise you’re making assumptions that may lead you in the wrong direction.

You can always try aromasin or grapeseed extract as well.


#14

Yep too true. I’ll get labs in a week or so and stay on my current protocol. Libido is still there so I must not be that low. I’ll report back when I know how 0.0625mg E3D does for me.

Hey with the vodka solution, is it normal for it to all settle at the bottom of the tube? I shake well before drawing with a syringe.


#15

Yeah its normal. Make sure you count drops per ml WITH the vodka anastrazole solution. I made the mistake of using drops of water per ml and not drops of anastrazole solution per ml. There was nearly a 10 drop difference between the two, which obviously screws up the math and therefore the dosage.


#16

So! From dosing 0.0625mg EOD from December 22nd until now, i had a blood test today - 3 weeks later.

E2 has come back at 92pmol/L or 25pg/ml.

I guess I’ve finally found a dose that works for me. Guess that also means I’m an anastrozole over-responder?

It’s also probably not worth attempting to tweak my E2 anymore right? I mean 25 is close enough to the “sweet spot” and it leave a bit of room for fluctuations either way higher or lower.

Thanks for all the vodka solution help and dosing advice hostile.


#17

You’re definitely an over responder and 25 pg/ml is very good. It likely fluctuates 10 units from day to day anyway. None of our numbers are completely static in reality. I would stick with that dose and possibly follow up with another blood test in a couple of months just to verify your e2 is relatively stable. I’m glad I could help.


#18

You didn’t say how you feel now that your E2 is at 25. I wanna know!!!

If you feel great, don’t muck with it anymore!


#19

You’re absolutely right, how you feel is 100% more important than numbers.

Well, I can say this, I’ve felt better than I ever have using Arimidex to get my E2 down. Now that’s not to say I’ve had some days or weeks were I’ve felt like shit (more due to screwing and being all over the place with my dosages).

My number one concern was my libido and sex performance when I pursued this issue. On the past 3 weeks of this past steady dose of 0.0625mg my libido has been really good, and erections have been rock solid. With high E2 my lubido was gone and I kept going soft. I’m single so I don’t have sex everyday but December I had some mad sex sessions that I wouldn’t have been able to have with high E2. Apart from that, sexually, I masturbate almost every single day. In contrast when my E2 was 55-78pg/ml it was MAYBE once a month. If that. In saying this, it doesn’t feel like when I first took my first 0.5mg Arimidex pill, and I felt so crazy horny (before it all subsided and my E2 crashed lol)

Aside from sex, I’ve seen major energy increases. My schedule pre Arimidex and high E2 was go to work -> come home and sleep for 1-2 hours -> get to the gym (sometimes I was too exhausted to make it). Now I don’t fall asleep after work, heck, I don’t even go home after work. I go straight to the gym and work out. I’ve done 4 times a week consistently since I’ve started Arimidex. Now I’m up to 5 times a week lifting and I do cardio about 4 times a week. So those are major major positives.

With my weight, I’ve always found it so difficult to lose any fat, it’s ridiculous. During December and before the holidays I lost about 4kg. Went from 87kg to 83kg, looked considerably thinner (most my fat is in my midsection). I have not seen 83kg on the scales in about 2 years so it was nice to see. Now I’m up to 85, and putting that down to Christmas New Years, and then being sick for a week but I’m back into exercising and eating right at full force now. Keen to see what happens!

Now I’m also looking into my thyroid as I suspect it’s slightly under active, so this could affect my weight loss. In any case getting my E2 under control has changed so much in my life. I’ve also been much more happier in general and less of a moody bastard.

Hope that helps :slight_smile:


#20

Congrats, man! I can totally relate to high E2 when I was on clomid and my E2 was high for months. Now I have the opposite problem - my E2 at last lab 12/22 was 8.4 and I have felt like absolute shit. And that was with 1mg and 210mg of test cyp per week, so I am likely an over-responder. Been off of AI for a week now and am ready to start microdosing after I start to feel better. I’m glad to know that those tiny doses work well for you. I’ve got my tablets dissolved, got my dropper and ready to go. Personally, I would rather have high E2 than low E2 any day, although sex is still totally no problem with low E2. High E2 = floppy.