T Nation

Kansas Shopping Experience

It warms my heart to think what could arise from a Red state …

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19586738/

[quote]Limbic wrote:
It warms my heart to think what could arise from a Red state …

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19586738/
[/quote]

In France, they’d be behind bars.

Wow that honestly sucks, I really can’t imagine how somebody could just look on and take pictures of somebody dying without getting help. Walking by a drunk hobo and laughing and taking photos is one thing, but somebody stabbed and bleeding to death in a shopping centre…uh, yeah.

While I’m one that enjoys making fun of the compassionate conservative concept, I don’t think it’s reasonable to characterize this event in such a way.

[quote]Limbic wrote:
It warms my heart to think what could arise from a Red state …

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19586738/
[/quote]

Oh yes, I’m sure the aggregate voting of this state in Presidential elections should be seen as directly related to the cause of the acts of the five individuals in this neighborhood incident. And to play with your ridiculous assumption, if I had to guess how this particular neighborhood voted in presidential elections, it wouldn’t be “red.”

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Limbic wrote:
It warms my heart to think what could arise from a Red state …

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19586738/

Oh yes, I’m sure the aggregate voting of this state in Presidential elections should be seen as directly related to the cause of the acts of the five individuals in this neighborhood incident.

Possibly.

And to play with your ridiculous assumption, if I had to guess how this particular neighborhood voted in presidential elections, it wouldn’t be “red.”[/quote]

Naw, they probably all voted and were strategically deleted. You know, that Greg Palast stuff …

If you read the names in the article its obvious everyone involved was black. And black people vote Democratic, or blue, about 88% of the time. So much for your stupid “red state” assumption.

[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
If you read the names in the article its obvious everyone involved was black. And black people vote Democratic, or blue, about 88% of the time. So much for your stupid “red state” assumption.[/quote]

They named the victim and the suspect, not the shoppers…

Anyways, this just convinces me that America is doomed

[quote]

Limbic wrote:
It warms my heart to think what could arise from a Red state …

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19586738/

BostonBarrister wrote:
Oh yes, I’m sure the aggregate voting of this state in Presidential elections should be seen as directly related to the cause of the acts of the five individuals in this neighborhood incident.

Limbic wrote:
Possibly.[/quote]

Yes, in the same manner that the French voting against the EU constitution possibly caused last summer’s Islamic rioting. In other words, it’s “possible” because it’s an idiotic premise that there is no study to cite for the fact that it’s moronic.

Ah, a complete non sequiter. And citing that wing nut Greg Palast just puts a cherry on it.

To follow you down the unrelated path, if you want to read a real book on the problems with our voting system, read John Fund: http://www.amazon.com/Stealing-Elections-Voter-Threatens-Democracy/dp/1594030618/ref=sr_1_1/102-0836306-8324147?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1183574375&sr=1-1

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:

Limbic wrote:
It warms my heart to think what could arise from a Red state …

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19586738/

BostonBarrister wrote:
Oh yes, I’m sure the aggregate voting of this state in Presidential elections should be seen as directly related to the cause of the acts of the five individuals in this neighborhood incident.

Limbic wrote:
Possibly.

Yes, in the same manner that the French voting against the EU constitution possibly caused last summer’s Islamic rioting. In other words, it’s “possible” because it’s an idiotic premise that there is no study to cite for the fact that it’s moronic.

BostonBarrister wrote:

And to play with your ridiculous assumption, if I had to guess how this particular neighborhood voted in presidential elections, it wouldn’t be “red.”

Limbic wrote:
Naw, they probably all voted and were strategically deleted. You know, that Greg Palast stuff …

http://www.amazon.com/Armed-Madhouse-Baghdad-Orleans-Sordid-Secrets/dp/0452288312/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-0316368-1627008?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1183572309&sr=8-1

Ah, a complete non sequiter. And citing that wing nut Greg Palast just puts a cherry on it.

To follow you down the unrelated path, if you want to read a real book on the problems with our voting system, read John Fund: http://www.amazon.com/Stealing-Elections-Voter-Threatens-Democracy/dp/1594030618/ref=sr_1_1/102-0836306-8324147?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1183574375&sr=1-1
[/quote]

BostonBarrister wrote: In other words, it’s “possible” because it’s an idiotic premise that there is no study to cite for the fact that it’s moronic.

Don’t worry, we’ll give you time to come up with THAT study as well. It’s relevance will be discernible only to the AI that controls you.

As for Palast being a “wingnut”, and I don’t want this to seem too personal, post up your real identity and we’ll attempt to run it past Palast: he may even have something on you! Haha.

I’ll look into that book.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Limbic wrote:
It warms my heart to think what could arise from a Red state …

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19586738/

Oh yes, I’m sure the aggregate voting of this state in Presidential elections should be seen as directly related to the cause of the acts of the five individuals in this neighborhood incident. And to play with your ridiculous assumption, if I had to guess how this particular neighborhood voted in presidential elections, it wouldn’t be “red.”[/quote]

Interestingly enough, there has been studies on this both in Sweden and Norway, the strongholds of social democracy and compassion… I’m afraid few, if any, stopped in most of the cases.

This isn’t a “red” or “blue” issue, but a “not my tribe, not my responsibility” thinking.

[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
If you read the names in the article its obvious everyone involved was black. And black people vote Democratic, or blue, about 88% of the time. So much for your stupid “red state” assumption.[/quote]

Wow. I hope I’m not the only one who didn’t even consider in the slightest the issue of race.

Some of you folks really need to give your heads a shake.

It doesn’t fucking matter whether it was a red state or a blue state, or what races were involved, or what the fucking people involved would vote if they did vote.

Sick bastards.

[quote]vroom wrote:

It doesn’t fucking matter whether it was a red state or a blue state, or what races were involved, or what the fucking people involved would vote if they did vote.

Sick bastards.[/quote]

Palast may be able to prove it does matter red or blue even race. lol.

As for the “fucking” people, maybe that’s exactly it, by Jove!

Yes, by Jove it’s a “fucked” matter! lol.

Cryptic brilliance by vroom!

Limbic,

Why am I not surprised you continue to miss the point.

This type of thing is a human tragedy.

Trying to characterize it as a problem with only a certain group, or class, for political gain, is an extremely shitty thing to do.

If you are someone trying to do such a thing, then you are entirely too much caught up in politics and have your head so far up your ass that you need a kick in the ass to help you get your priorities straight.

Idiot.

Even if there are studies in this regard, throwing aspersions at classes of people due to such studies is also a completely fucked up thing to do.

Too bad it is so common these days.

While I generally don’t like the right wing cheerleader viewpoint I’m certainly not going to stoop so low as to try to blame this type of event on supposedly republican voting patterns.

You may want to check out Wikipedia on the subject of red states and blue states… it’s not quite so clearly defined as one might think.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Limbic,

You may want to check out Wikipedia on the subject of red states and blue states… it’s not quite so clearly defined as one might think.[/quote]

I’m sure. It may have far more to do with who’s in control of the FBI/Justice Dept. in each present than you’ve allowed yourself to even conceive of to date. Lecture me with head up ass?! Stealing elections/futures is possible only in a society dominated by legal blackmail. Life becomes a circus-spectacle when all is reduced to the play of influence, as the shopper with the cellphone camera acknowledged.

These conservatives love nothing better than to have you essentially beg them to consider humanistic values. Half the population of Kansas probably still thinks the Iraq war is a good thing. Hell, Combat Pay, otherwise nothing! C’mon.

Why did I consider the issue or race? Because its relevant.

In my inner-city ghetto neighborhoods in the US (meaning black neighborhoods), you don’t go outside when the sun sets. Why? Because there is a very good chance you will be mugged/beaten up/killed.

I have yet to discover a “dangerous” white neighborhood.

I’m not racist. I’m simply pointing out reality. There is a lot more crime in black neighborhoods than white neighborhoods.

[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
I have yet to discover a “dangerous” white neighborhood.
[/quote]

LOL. Don’t even think of trying to suggest to me that “white people” are all friendly and easy to get along or some dumb shit like that.

Look, one can certainly have a calm discussion of statistics and come to various conclusions, but that isn’t the same thing.

It is simply not necessary to look at things in a racial perspective when it comes to recognizing problems, avoiding problems, or fixing problems.

However, you can continue to live in a divisionist dystopia as long as you like… it’s really not my problem.

Ok, Vroom is entirely correct that this event shouldn’t have anything to do with political alignment or race, it’s just something terrible that happened. I do agree with Oklahoma though, what predominantly white neighborhood do you know of that’s very dangerous and ‘ghetto’?

[quote]MisterAmazing wrote:
I do agree with Oklahoma though, what predominantly white neighborhood do you know of that’s very dangerous and ‘ghetto’? [/quote]

I won’t argue with apparent statistics, not that I’ve actually seen them, but there are some important things to consider.

First, why?

When you can dig deeper than race to find out what underlying issues are involved in the development of anti-social behavior, then you work towards finding ways to change things.

Dismissing an issue as a “race issue” simply shortcuts any meaningful discussion or understanding. Black people are quite simply people. White people are also quite simply people.

People, of all races, react to the surroundings, experiences, opportunities and realities of their situations in very similar ways. The socialization process is pretty similar under similar conditions.

I would posit that strained race relations which seem to exist in the US would be a causative factor in alienation of various minority groups. Also, history, whether anyone likes to consider it, may also contribute to alienation and anti-social behavior.

Talk about a self-fulfilling mindset. The real question is whether you collectively really want to work towards integration or whether you want to reinforce divisionist viewpoints.

Second, how to solve it?

Unfortunately, I’m not sure how to go about doing this. I suspect that not looking at life through racially tinted perspectives might help, but I don’t know if that will ever happen.

There are always plenty of people sitting around ready to fan the flames at every opportunity.

Maybe when people of different races don’t feel like they are treated differently, such as getting stopped for driving while black, then they won’t be as likely to dis-integrate and reject what they sometimes rightly perceive as an unjust and unfair system?

Third, who’s going to stand up and want to do something about it?

Personally, when I see race being substituted as a placeholder for other issues, when it isn’t useful or necessary, I bitch about it. I don’t know if it matters to anyone, but I find it very difficult to just let it pass unnoticed.

Again, it is certainly possible to discuss statistics or other facts without resorting to prejudicial statements that malign social groups and minorities.

However, if you prefer to sound ignorant, prejudicial and racist, then go ahead and knock yourselves out.