Just Under 14 Weeks Before 2 MPD Shows

@norse_str3ngth I am really killing in in the gym…have been since day 1 at 20 weeks out.

only thing changed in past 3 weeks is going from PPL split to a 2 on 1 off split of

chest-bicdps
legs
HIIT
shoulders/triceps
back
HIIT
repeat

abs every HIIT day.

been working very well to. although not my norm I like the focus it gives muscle groups and the frequency it gives muscle groups now. I thank @BrickHead for the split suggestion.

I train solo but none the less I use rest pause sets and cluster sets to get max reps out and really take sets to failure or in some but not all cases beyond failure.

lucky enough for me this time round in prep my major numbers in bench, squat, rack deads, pull ups, dips and shoulder presses have not suffered at all. my loads have not had to dive at all. at least for sets done at a 6RM or higher anyway. bodyweight lifts are actually higher then they were in offseason by a hair but I am also 20lbs lighter then I was then.

macros for the past 3 refeed days have been 550g carb, 185g protein, 30g fat

proteins are almost always whey, egg white, ff greek yogurt and ff cottage cheese on refeed days

carbs are flavored oatmeal, baked yams, white rice, homemade low fat oatbran cookies, halo top ice cream, arctic zerio ice cream, flavored rice cakes and pretzels.

fats are n/a as I don’t add any other then fish oils. all else naturally occurring.

I simply hit 110g carbs a meal, 35g protein a meal and then natural fats in the foods. none added.

as of yesterday I am now working with my friend, peer, and old grad school buddy, Peter Fitschen of Fit Body Physique LLC. He was going to be my offseason coach after these shows ended but I said WTF and got him in with me now to take stress out of peaking for these shows as well.

as of today I am now at his assignments for diet/cardio. training he feels I have a handle on since strength and intensity not suffered at all to this point. plus it is my profession after all…I better have a hang of it!

240p 140c, 45f (all day)
220p. 280c, 40f (6th day refeed)

2x30 HIIT /wk
2x30 LISS /wk

I would do something like muscle rounds for the traps, shoulders and lats on the hiit, I would also drop the carbs from mixed sources, stick with what you stomach tolerates best. At the same time I would drop your normal lower carb days to somewhere like .5-.75 g per pound of body weight then going up to 1.5 to 2 on high days. I would also cycle a high day in when absolutely necessary. I would say you have made good progress. But have stalled slightly. See how this week goes, make sure to get quality sleep.

I’m only one individual, so take this for what its worth, and I think perhaps the other poster was hinting at this too…

I really dont think you are ready for this competition.

The first problem is that your body fat levels are not where they need to be at 5 weeks out. Not even close. You have zero abdominal definition. Honestly you should be “almost ready” at that time… Within low single digits of the number of pounds of weight you have to lose. I would estimate you still have about 20 pounds of weight to lose to be stage ready.

Okay, I dont post this picture to do anything but illustrate my point, not to insinuate any kind of superiority or anything like that. I am certainly not anywhere near the best body builder in the world, or even in the top on T-Nation.

This was me at 4 weeks out, and you can see I have full visibility of the six-pack region with lower ab veins coming in, which you literally have none of (sorry man, but its true). The side chest pose from this week also shows striations coming in at the midline of the chest. You are no where near this level. Again, I am not claiming how much better I was than you, just showing you what “on track” looks like.

For further comparison, and to see what a real contender looks like, look at this photo from Brick to see his 4-weeks-out conditioning, which is vastly superior to mine and I was one of the leanest on stage come the day of the show:

You can see how if he went on stage that day it would still be respectable.

The second problem, which can be easily fixed especially with your coach, is that your posing leaves much to be desired. Just those 2 pics alone are showing me you are not aware of your body positioning. You almost seem too be narrowing yourself in instead of widening yourself out. Consult your coach about this.

The third problem, and probably more pressing (and what I think the other poster was hinting at), is that you simply are not muscular enough for a body building stage, or MPD as the case may be (which is basically upper body building). Obviously you have to start competing at some point in time as you cant play the “just a little bigger…” game indefinitely… But I really think taking a few more years to add some mass would be warranted in your particular case, paricularly in the shoulders/traps if MPD is your game. Your legs are actually not that bad, but they are unimportant in the MPD side of things.

Having said that, I do not want to discourage you from doing shows soon if you are dead set on that. As I said, you have to start some time… But what I would say is that you should NOT do a show in 5 weeks. Unless you have actually ponied up the cash already I would consider that option off the table. And even if you have I would seriously consider skipping it or seeing if you can reschedule. I would shoot for another 12 weeks at least. Going back through my photos you seem to be where I was right about 10-11 weeks out conditioning wise.

Okay man… I hope we can still be T-Nation bros after this, but I wanted to provide with an honest assessment from someone who will give it to you straight. I hope I didnt come off like an asshole, but sometimes the truth can sting.

As I said, this is just my opinion, so feel free to tell me get stuffed. Others may chime in with differing ones.

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Were you taking in adequate sodium and water?

S

This may be the most direct and honest feedback I have gotten to date besides that of my coach 2 days ago to be quite frank…I am not angered, pissed, or shocked to hear it as my coach, Pete, did allude to some of the same things matter of fact (size not being ideal, posing even if for pic assessment only needs work, being lean enough in 5 weeks will be possible but a rough dig as he put it etc…)

I have not paid a penny for either show yet. Nov 19th is the 2nd show I had in mind. That’s 7 weeks out from this weekend. He urged me to pin that one down as the primary show and the Nov 5 show as a warm up show.

I have been considering dropping that show reluctantly, to just go balls out and peak hard and good for the later one and plop a photoshoot the week just before to capitalize on the condition I’d be in.

See these pics of you and Brick at 4 weeks out being nattys as well really gives me the wake up of what my competition would looks like or could look like.

I am going to obey my coach and ride this week out just as he has outlined and see where that takes me. I have until Oct 28th to register for the show.

I am going to give you a HUGE thanks for being blunt, honest and supportive of a guy like me who perhaps puts hit motivation, ambition and ego before his practical preparedness at times.

I don’t salt my meals really at all. Its just naturally occurring salts I suppose then. Water was at least 1.5 gallons but no more than 2 I would say. Pink salt is all I do use when seasoning meats and veggies.

I wonder now if the fact that half the carbs being of a higher GI and quicker burning was not to blame in that they don’t stick to me much or for long and left me flat yet morning after?

do you guys bother to track macros from veggies like:

raw…
cucumber
tomatoes
kale
spinach
romain lettuce
yellow/zucchini squash
white mushrooms
peppers
onions
celery

I myself do not. their total aggregate contribution to my diet in the amounts I eat per day is like 20g net carbs, 4 fat and 5 protein. the fat being negligible, the protein being incomplete and the veggie being extremely non impact carbs in small per meal does seems pointless to consider in the grand scheme IMO.

veggies I do eat daily and count are those like:

broccoli/cauliflower
asparagus
brussel sprouts
carrots
green beans

Your thoughts on this?

Thanks for being receptive. I should note that I also come from the perspective of someone who came to my show under-muscled as well. I placed 6th out of 12 largely because of my leanness, but I was giving up like 14-16 pounds to the guys at the top of my weight class which made them completely untouchable.

I think the show at 7 weeks would be much, much more appropriate and set you up to be more successful in the future.

You might even set your photoshoot for the week or two (or even 3-4 depending on how the show goes) after and make that the target date to be in your best condition. The pictures last forever, the show is only a day.

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I never counted them and it didn’t seem to affect me at all. I actually ate broccoli ad lib and at one point during the final weeks was eating multiple bags a day. Green beans were my other staple and I would routinely eat 2-3 bags of those as well towards the end (alternating days with the broccoli). I actually barely ever felt hungry as I remember I was so stuffed from those…

Having said that… Carrots might be a slightly different story because they actually arent quite as fibrous and have more sugar (50% of the carb count) in them than something like broccoli or green beans. Obviously its not a soda, but if you are munching away like crazy thinking its “free” it could be a problem.

Some other tricks-of-the-trade for me were diet soda and sugar free gum. Not exactly health food, but if it helps you get to the finish line without being miserable these can be valuable tools.

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Some people tend to choose naturally higher sodium containing foods than others. Heck, I had so much salt in my contest diets just from my reliance on condiments.

It might be worth it to see how you react to a conscious approach of adding salt to your daily food intake.

People put too much emphasis on the whole GI thing IMO. When you have a feeding of mixed macros (fats, proteins, even higher GI and lower GI carbs together), it pretty much nixes the ideas of fast or slow digestion. EVerything ends up getting slowed down. Also, even if you’re ingesting all simple carbs post workout, your body can only store so much before the rest get slowed/stored anyway, so it’s doubtful that you burned off an extra few hundred grams of carbs because of the timing.

S

I lack the credibility of @Lonnie123 having never competed, but . . . back in August, this was my take.

It’s probably very difficult to add the mass you need with the physical requirements of your job.

Good luck!

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I mentioned early in this thread that you don’t seem to be putting on muscle year after year. I also don’t see much progress in your conditioning. I don’t see how you can confidently step on stage even at the end of November at the rate you’ve progressed since this thread started. I generally bite my tongue on your threads because it seems like you just do this for shits and grins. And my overall philosophy is, do whatever makes you happy. But I’m throwing out my 2 cents again because you seemed receptive of Lonnie’s critique. Quite frankly, I’m baffled that your coach would tell you being lean enough in 5 weeks ‘will be possible but a rough dig.’ That’s not fair to you, because it’s not honest. I was told by someone I trust that I’m about 12 weeks out in my condition, and 16 if I really want to be safe, and I have vascularity across my body, including quads, lats, abs, etc. And since I’m not natural, I have drugs at my disposal to get me into contest shape. You don’t have that luxury, so I would think you’re at least as far out from competition as I would be. I’m not going to drop my picture in your thread unless you ask for it, but I have a Rate My Picture thread available.

I’m also supportive of you pursuing your goals, as others in this thread are. But if you’re actually interested in being competitive on stage, I believe you need to truly overhaul your programming. Probably both your diet and your training.

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good tips indeed. lucky for me its not for the sake of keeping or feeling full. I have not had bad cravings to this point really at all. some now and then sure but nothing crazy really. I just wondered if it was worth logging and tracking those specific ones in my daily intakes is all. less to fuss with. offseason or cutting, I have never tracked those few I listed above. diet soda bloats the shit out of me so I typically pass on that. I do pound Orbit gu, almost all day however to keep my mouth busy somehow lol!

So VERY true!

I trained strict powerlifter Jan 16 till June 14th as I went for SoCal regional qualification for nationals in USAPL and I did so. That was my major goal. After that I knew very well I would not place in the nationals meet in my class knowing what those guys move. I had lots of friends and peers doing stage fitness based shows and the bug got to me bad, real bad…to do another one myself so that is where objectives changed with powerlifting no longer the outcome. So keep in mind PL was my primary training purpose until mid June this year.

On top of that my job does in fact make it SUPER hard to gain and keep size on. I lead 3x45 minute fitness classes per day M-F ranging from spinning class, TRX class, ruck marches and tactical fitness conditioning classes for large groups of sailors. Shit ton of cardio really. Based on my HR readings and calorie burn using my fitbit as a rough guide…I burn 425-650 calories per class! That’s 1275 calories minimum per day I burn in non-specific training for physique alone.

Recovery, adaptation, calorie balance, all suffer due to this reality I have found. I am lucky as shit my strength has never seemed to be dampened by that concurrent training effect to this point to be frank.

I am not blind to the fact that another 20lbs of pure muscle would do me wonders to compete in MPD class where upper body size and thickness is key to success. Getting there is another world vice just knowing it however.

I think the real truth is that my coach Pete, knows me too well and when I say I am competing in anything formal, powerliting, obstacle coursr racing, MPD etc…its not worth talking me out of it unless it will truly be a bad and regrettable choice that can be clearly explained to me. Otherwise is better to go with it and support me in the best way possible to assure things turn out as good as they can. I’m a stubborn SOB like that. Plus we do have a long friendship that may weigh on him as well in which he does not want to discourage and anger a friend vice just a objective client with no deeper level feeling for…just my guess…

Nov 19th I am going for all out. I can look and be representable for that date. I like the idea of doing a photoshoot the week following as well to capture the condition and look I would have then. I can use those shots for increasing my portfolio of shots, marketing, website, social media presence, etc…all the other stuff beyond just stage fitness.

Until my job demands change from what they are AND I take time away from powerlifting training methods longer term…I agree that the adaptations I want and need for MPD will not be ideal. It is my hope working with Pete now and post show through 2017 will allow this to happen.

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I don’t bank much on it myself due to the mixed meal effects you mention. I just wonder if the GI alone and general natural of a faster digesting, absorbing, assimilating carb may have played into not being so full vice going lower GI is all. Could very well be as you said, salt too low and water not high enough to maximize the glycogen storage.

On workout days, my FitBit has me at 4300 calories per day, 3400 on days I don’t lift. It’s very difficult to add LBM with those kind of numbers, especially for an old fuck like me. Some weeks, I’m at 28,000 for the week, but my low is about 24,000. So, I understand why you lack the mass right now. Interestingly, as @flipcollar noted, your legs are a strong point. Probably a function of the ruck marches, etc…

I appreciate that you understand where you’re at. And, frankly, if you want to get on stage, fuck it, do it. I went to @robstein’s show, and there were a lot of dudes that were clearly lacking mass, but looked good (clearly, Rob wasn’t lacking mass). There are many reasons to compete, and like Flip says, do what you want.

Rock and roll.

@Lonnie123 thanks so much for the kind words! I remember I said to you once, said something like, “I hope to be in the shape you once were when competing.” You responded that I can do it. I didn’t think I could! I’m using my iPhone right now but want to write more when I get on my laptop. Not only that, -as you can see my posting is a bit scattered because of the time and mentally draining prep.

@La_Crosse_Grad like I said to Lonnie I’m on my phone right now but likely will write more here. I’m glad you’re receptive to some tough love considering all the guys on this forum are really good people. This forum doesn’t have a lot of dedicated posters but there are high quality, generous people here. None of that childish, malicious shit like on GB or BB.com.

I’ve alluded some things here but seeing you’re receptive to some constructive feedback, I’ll open up a bit more. It seems also your approach is all over the damn place! If you wanna do physique, train like a bodybuilder. As I also said, I don’t think your structure is ideal for physique, rather that you should aim to gain as much muscle as possible and do BB. I chose not to do physique considering I’m leg dominant, narrow in the clavicles, and flat chested. One can still be ok in BB with my structure, though likely not at the very top. Meadows is an IFBB BB pro and actually has the very same characteristics: narrow clavicles, limb dominant, big legs, etc. your structure is the antithesis of physique, as is mine!

Another thing I’ve learned, which I think you might not be aware of considering your tone. I’ve realized getting shredded, a contest prep, no matter how safe it has to be tried to be done, is merciless… unforgiving… maybe even unhealthy and borderline destructive. Rob and Stu can relate! I don’t get this understanding from you. This is my first go, and this prep has twice brought me to near tears and telling my wife, “I’m sorry… you know I love you…”… for no reason! She had no idea what the fuck I was talking about! THAT is how badly a contest prep done “right” can wreak havoc on ones mind while chasing a downright unhealthy state of being! Do you get that?

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@BrickHead it may “seem” like I am all over the place but its not really. I had done strictly physique based training for 6 years between 2003 and 2009 where I did 3 bodybuilding contest in the INBF before MPD really came about. I got into powerlifting via a city club team while working at Mizzou and freaking loved it! I found it as fun or in some ways more fun/different the aesethic based training so I went all in for that and put physique goals and objectives to the side until early 2013 when after leaving Mizzou and getting to Cali, the bug for physique came back strong (Cali will do that to you) so in Oct 2013 I did two of my first and so far, only MPD contest, one ANBF and the 2nd 2 weeks later, NPC. I took 5th/9 and 9th/11 in tall classes respectively.

Those last 2 shows tested me…I got down to 6% between the 2 competition dates (confirmed via dunk tank). It was the single hardest times of my life every time. During college and grad school mostly if I recall…learned real quick where my breaking point is at lets say…I actually had to see an endocrinologist post season as my T levels did not rebound for almost 1 year nor did my weight to pre-contest levels despite eating more and more and doing almost no cardio. Lucky for me with time and no pharma involvement they did both rebound and I have been fine since.

After those shows I found a Navy co-ed powerlifting team here in San Diego that was looking for strength coaches and professionals to help out with teaching and leading Navy members in training and competing. I did so for 6 months and eventually got so into that again I went back to the platform and again, put physique goals on hold and went for making the regional qualifications to go to nationals in USAPL which I did in spring 2015.

I was deployed March 2015 through Dec 2015 so not till after that did I resume training for USAPL nationals again and successfully made this June. Right after that the bug again…hit me hard with several friends and peers competing in physique shows and I had to get back into it, an itch that needed itching badly. So that is where I have been since then.

My coach does not feel I have the frame or metabolism to add the size needed to be as good at bodybuilding even in a natty org as I would MPD. Despite my preference for bodybuilding over MPD as a competitor he still feels this the case. The choice is always mine in the end but I value his thoughts and opinions very deeply.

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