T Nation

Just Thinking Out Loud

i was thinking of using clen in the future for a cut and i see that the common way of running it would be to use it for 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off. seeing how most agree that clen eats away at muscle if used without anabolics, clen should be taken on cycle to minimise this. so i was just wondering if you were to combine the 2 week cycles of clen with the 2 week cycles of anabolics, would that be a feasible idea?

for example say for the 2 weeks with clen, we run it together with say 50mg of test prop and tren ace ed. then on the 2 weeks off, nolva with a regular fatburner like HOT-ROX. I would assume a straight out cut cycle for 6-8 weeks would be a whole lot better approach in regards to maximal fat loss. but this 2 weeker approach could possibly be better for recovery sake no?

tren is not a very good choice for 2 on 2 off, I dont recommend its usage in that way.

I would run a straight cycle and use tren.

hmmm… okays.

with the idea of running low dose test with tren, which of these two approaches would you think is better?

wk 1 - 8 tren 50mg/day
wk 2 - 6 hcg 250iu/eod


wk 1 - 8 tren 50mg/day
wk 1 - 8 test 125mg/e3d

personally, i’d lean towards using hcg. reason being recovery would be easier no?


anyways, was browsing through the forums and came upon a thread by brook which is largely what i’m aiming to do. in the thread he was suggesting running hcg as a base for non-test cycles, just to mantain a basic level of test. the dose suggested was 125iu daily. however, the study was done based on men suppressed by test. would it be correct to assume that with the use of tren, suppresion would be even harder? would that then require a slightly higher dose of hcg?

just another cycle example that came to mind after all that reading:

wk 1-8 tren ace 50mg/day
wk 1-8 test e 50mg/e3d
wk 2-6 hcg 125iu/day

followed by a standard SERM PCT 2 days after last tren ace pin.

PCT is done then as test levels would already be at levels that should respond to the PCT.
also, for such a cycle, would an AI have to be taken considering test levels are relatively low, or just kept at the ready?

From what my mates have done in the past, medium dose test (400-500mg weekly) run with clen + an anti histamine (run weeks 3-6) has worked for 4-6 weeks mini cuts. On a solid diet they generally lose 14-20 pounds of water weight and fat with no muscle loss.

This is massively away from what your thinking…but since your worried about recover;

What I was thinking of doing was 2 weeks on 2 weeks off var/clen until i was sufficiently lean.

Wk 1-2: 20-40mg var (depending on how i feel on it, prefer to go 20-30 cause its a lot cheaper) + clen ramped up

wk 5-6: 30-40mg var + clen ramped up

etc etc

The above cycle I assume would have low shut (hence easier recovery) down as I remember reading var only heavily shuts people down at 60mg, oh though I could be wrong.

thanks for the ideas mate. really appreciate it. curious though, why add an anti histamine to a cycle?

and yeah, a standard test+tren cycle would be similar to the one you have outlined above. I’ve been asking specifically on tren as that is the compound I intend to try on my next cycle. I’ve already run two 10 week cycles of straight test e, the first one at 250mg e3d and the other one at 250mg m/w/f. results were similar both times but definitely had more sides on the second run. for example, I never had a problem with acne at all the first time. only had the odd bump on the back and chest which went away just as fast. second time, my back was full of it, with a decent amount on my lower chest/torso. recovery was good on both, but better on the second. probably because i used nolva on the second pct instead of clomid.

i’ve read that tren would exert more sides since its suppose to be 500% more androgenic than test. plus, with the recent threads about how low test cycles coupled with tren helps alleviate sides, i was thinking of giving that a go. also, knowing how suppresive tren is, i’ve been considering ways to to achieve the quickest recovery. hence the initial idea of 2wks on/off. but on further reading, it would appear that the best way to run tren would be about 6-8 weeks. thus the idea to add hcg into the mix now.

edit: just realised that the reason you add an antihistamine is for the down regulation of the beta receptors due to clen use no? i’ve always read reccomendations to use benadryl, which i’ve just come to know is an antihistamine. does this mean any kind of antihistamine would serve the purpose?

Yeah to the best of my knowledge any antihistamine should work. Not surprising you got more sides with a higher dose. In regards to test alleviating sides i think your slightly incorrect. Test nullifies tren dick from what i have read but the other sides, including the other prolactin based sides aren’t nullified. I haven’t used steroids yet so please take what i’m saying with a grain of salt and sorry if anything i have said is incorrect.

I am going to run 4 weeks of clen/var 2 weeks on 2 weeks off at 40mgs var because my mate gave me 30 var for chrissie:D