Just the FATS please!!!

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

OK Neil. You believe what you would like to believe.
I have been reading many of your posts as lately and you you seem to be the self proclaimed king of knowledge around here. That’s just the way you come across to me.
Many of your statements have no solid research behind them. If you’re going to make statements, you need to back them up with documented research. PROOF!
Don’t just rely on a “hunch”.

You made the comment:

“Ok, what HAVE we learned? What I’ve learned is that these people can’t make up their minds and don’t have a clue.”

“I’ll eat the way humans are supposed to eat and stay healthy while these clowns try to figure things out. Humans evolved on fatty animal sources, and were able to develop their complex CNS because of it. I’m not going to fly in the face of nature and avoid the foods that made us what we are today.”

So without mentioning any names, you’re saying that people that have been contributors to this very site (John Berardi comes to mind) are “clowns”? Not one of the nutritional articles on this site have ever proclaimed that the majority of your fats should come from animal sources (imagine that). Your clown comments have you on some pretty thin ice there my friend.

You have made some good points with some of your posts so I sincerely hope that you can continue to progress and learn in your eternal quest for knowledge.

Out.

22

“So without mentioning any names, you’re saying that people that have been contributors to this very site (John Berardi comes to mind) are “clowns”? Not one of the nutritional articles on this site have ever proclaimed that the majority of your fats should come from animal sources (imagine that). Your clown comments have you on some pretty thin ice there my friend.”

No, that wasn’t addressed to the T-Mag writers. It was more towards the general nutritional ideas in America.

I guess if you eat egg whites, chicken breasts, and canned tuna, you could get the majority of your fats from supplementation. Do I see something wrong with that? Yes. Absolutely. What “proof”? Diets that low in animal fats are deficient in vitamins A and D. That’s my proof. By using things like butter and WHOLE eggs, you get vitamins A and D. You don’t get that from lean meats, fish oil (unless cod liver oil, which people seem to avoid for some reason), or flax oil.

That’s my biggest beef.

23

" In my view, the ultimate consumption ratio of fats should be 0.7: 1.6: 1.4 (SFA:MONO:POLY) to optimize health and body composition, in a diet of 30% fat or more. "

I’m curious to know how you came to this ratio. :slight_smile:

I was thinking more along the lines of:

2:2:1

Do you agree with the current POLY guidelines? I think it’s 4g for every 2000kcal?

-Zulu

24
  1. Nuts (primarily almonds, plus hazelnuts, and a few walnuts)
  2. Ground flaxseeds
  3. Olive oil
  4. Animal sources (meat and eggs)

Neil. . .there are plenty of sources of vitamins A & D besides animal fat. If you want to argue about what we should eat based on the diets of our ancestors, I can understand the argument that cavemen didn’t have flaxseed or olive oil presses. But didn’t our fore-T-fathers have plenty of nuts and fish (omega-3) in their diets, as well as saturated animal fat?

25

1)Flax and fish oil
2)olive oil, fat from nuts and PB
3)Egg and beef fat

How many grams are you guys taking in a day??

I’ve been taking in about 144g.

26

I’m tired of bickering with Niel.

Niel, eat the way you want. I don’t give a fuck.

And Zulu, I’ll PM you Ok?

I’m out.

Cass

27

A) fish oil capsules
B) canola oil
c) olive oil and olives (black greek olives)
d) middleeastern eggplant and mayo salad
e) walnuts

28

That’d be awesome, thanks. :slight_smile:

-Zulu

29

“Neil. . .there are plenty of sources of vitamins A & D besides animal fat.”

Yeah…liver :slight_smile:

30

Cass: What’s your take on omega-3 eggs from those flax fed chickens? marketing gimmick or viable alternative to regular whole eggs?

31

I’ll bicker with Neil for a while then, Cass.

Neil,

Wait, so you’re saying that we lived on animal fats?

But how fat, really, are wild animals? I mean, you complain about how lean buffalo are, and that’s because they’re wild. It’s only grain-fed beef fattened up in troughs and with hormones that are really fatty today–free range is not, for a similar reason. Cream? From Cow’s milk, not a real “Paleo-style” thing. Bacon? Uh–wild boar is nothing like bacon. Butter? See: Cream? I don’t even want to think about the bio-accumulative toxins that have collected in these animals “trash cans” (aka livers). A lot of nasty shit is also fat-soluble, and that stuff scares me too.

So I guess I agree with you on the “organic” thing., but these things are as artificial as the processed carbs you hate.

Though: I will give you this tip–Homo Habilus one of our earliest ancestors, was able to survive by scavenging/gathering–cracking open the bones of large mammals (like mammoths) and sucking out the marrow. What’s the fat composition of marrow? (at least the marrow of wild mammals?) Heavily Polys, with a lot of Omega-3, some monos, and some saturates.

Now, since most of us don’t have a rifle, a scope and a “chopper” (stone tool for breaking open bones) and access to a game reserve, we have to live off of domesticated sources. So what do we do? Supplement. It’s our only choice.

Neil, I think you’re on the right track with this, but you need to look closer. You need to take Weston A. Price’s arguments to their logical conclusion–not that eating 16th century style is good, but rather, eating 50,000 BCE style is good. And then use THAT as a launching pad for the rest of your information. Filter the science that’s being constantly discovered about fats, proteins, carbs, and all the micronutrients and other nutrative substances like lycopene, etc. through that filter. And when in doubt, eat a wider variety of food.

BTW. Rare Buffalo is a rare treat.

32

my fat comes from 2 tblsp of flax a day, and 2 tblsp of cashew butter a day. I might be getting a little saturated from the boneless skinless chicken breast I eat each day, but that is it. Do you guys think the Sat fat is important to add? I know the benefits with upping t-levels, would throwing in a steak a few times a week help to solve the equation?

33

J,

I’ve read that steak is the best “muscle building meat” but I couldn’t tell you the reasons why.

It may help you, it may not. Variety, however, is the spice of life.

Dan

34

I’ll say it again.

A steak has as much mono’s as saturated fat.

If you really want to up your sat fat, you need to drink fatter dairy (cheese, milk), eat coconut oil, drink coconut milk etc…

Not that I’m saying we all have access to these things, or even that I recommend them, but that is where the majority of saturated fat exist.

35

“I don’t even want to think about the bio-accumulative toxins that have collected in these animals “trash cans” (aka livers).”

I believe the liver is also one of the most nutritious things you can eat. Apparantly (extrapolating from animal studies) it seems to contain some sort of anti-fatigue factor which is neat. Even many politically correct nutritionists recommend it because it’s so chalk full of nutrition.

The way I see it, you shouldn’t go out of your way to AVOID saturated fat (ie: drink whole milk unless you dislike the taste) but you shouldn’t force yourself to eat extra fat. How’s that for reasonable??

-Zulu

36

JasonL- You know that was a great question.
Even JB searched for some kind of reference to a breakdown of Beef, Bison, Ostrich ect.

So Cass if you don’t mind that would be a great resource for manny if you know of a sight.

Brett- that very question came up in my class yesterday RE the Omega-3 Eggs, I would also like to know if their is any change in the cholesterol