T Nation

Just the facts

Here are some facts on John Kerry:

  1. John Kerry came back from Vietnam and joined the anti-war movement.

  2. John Kerry participated in an active demonstration where he threw ‘his’ service medals over the fence of the white house. The medals weren’t his, but the intentions were.

  3. VVAW, the antiwar movement Kerry belonged to, was one of the more RADICAL groups.

  4. Kerry played a very active role in widespreading the image of the U.S. soldier as a monster. This led to the hostile attitude toward our soldiers when they returned.

  5. Kerry has played off his time in Vietnam as an “obscene memory” if the mood is anti-war, and as the Mekong Delta hero if the mood is pro-war. Oh wait wait wait - isn’t THIS the same guy who threw his service medals over the fence of the white house? Either you’re proud ofbeing the hero, or you’re not.If you’re against the war, don’t use it to gain leverage with your fellow veterans.

  6. Kerry speaks from both sides of his mouth, as shown by another post. He claimed to be pro-war and anti-war to gain acceptance from different individuals. Both in the period of a couple of months.

  7. Kerry claims to be the veteran’s candidate. I don’t think so. Being a veteran, Kerry is a disgrace to other veterans. His purple hearts are very honorable, but his following few decades are tarnished with a VERY strong anti-war movement.

From a military perspective, I would be very nervous about electing him president. From an anti-terrorist movement, I would also be very nervous about it. I just don’t see him finishing up the job he’ll have before him very well.

Maybe if and went and spent a couple tours in a war zone, and picked up a few Purple Hearts and a Silver Star along the way, you’d come back with a different perspective on war, too.

Just a thought. Pretty easy to be a pro-war loudmouth from the safety of your keyboard. But until you actually do something, you should consider keeping your mouth shut regarding other people’s service records.

Only 2 weeks until I go and something.
How long until you do something?

Let me quote morg’s view on the issue at hand:

"kerry was part of a radical group, and one of the things he did in this group was to bring soldiers (i forget if these guys were real or fake) before congress to testify against the soldiers in vietnam for supposed “war crimes.” later it was found that these stories were totally FALSE, and kerry himself admitted that he never saw any of the things mentioned.

kerry was also personally credited by the general that successfully ran out US forces from vietnam in 1975. i’m not sure of the spelling of his name, so i’ll give a phonetic spelling - gyat. in his personal memoirs written in 1985 about the war, he said without groups like the ones kerry lead, he would have surrendered to US forces.

so kerry is responsible for all the deaths caused by this extra fighting that he caused.

he also provided aid and comfort to the enemy, and successfully helped us lose a war and lose many american lives.

in short, i personally think kerry is a traitor and should be put to death"

Couldn’t have put it any better.

good point tme

diesel23 So, your still planning on joining the Air Force? What, is going to happen to your wonderful personal training career;)? Go luck out there. Don’t vote for the democartes. Vote for Bush eventhough you can’t stand him. He’s still the better candidate then Kerry or Dean. If Edwards or Clark were the front runners I may have vote democrate. But, so far Bush has gotten my vote.

In Health,

Silas Chen

“Only 2 weeks until I go and something.
How long until you do something?”

I finished 4 years of doing “something” in the 1st Squadron, 10th Armored Cavalry (Ready and Forward) several years before you were born. I just don’t feel the need to talk a lot of shit about it, and I damn sure wouldn’t be spouting off about someone else’s service record if I myself had never served.

Come back when and if you actually make it through basic training.

Vote Libertarian, they are against the drug war and for personal freedoms, of course I am not sure they even have a candidate this year. That said we have had enough of Bushs deceptions and death and deficits, letting him have four more years would be very bad indeed, let some other evil person take his place, that way limitting the amount of time one evil man sits in office.

You do know that his Purple Hearts were for minor shrapnel wounds right? My dad worked on the swift boats and knew a lot of the crews. It was common for guys to hang their arms over the armor plating in the gun mounts in hopes of getting a shrapnel wound because three combat wounds with associated Purple Hearts would get you sent home. I’m not saying that’s how he got his but the facts were he only lost two days of field time total for all three wounds tells you just how bad the scratches, I mean wounds were.

Another thing. It’s common for officers to get Bronze or Silver Stars for shit their men did or for actions an enlisted man wouldn’t even get a letter of commendation for. Kerry hopped off the boat and followed a blood trail and whacked a guy his gunner had wounded already. The guy was running away. Things like that happen in war but it’s not the kind of thing anyone that’s been in combat would call heroic.

He went, he did his job, and for that he gets my respect like anyone else. Just don’t go calling him a war hero.

Hulk Hogan 2004 with Jessie Ventura bringing up the rear. He was the governor of my home state and did pretty good. Might as well make the election the circus it is. How bout Ted Nugent as sectratary of state? That would be pretty cool. “Give up your terrorists or we’ll send our convicts to your country to go human hunting”


SteelyEyes, not sure if you were replying to me or not. I never referred to Kerry as a hero, and never implied he was. I don’t really care one way or the other, but he has a military record and Bush doesn’t. Being in country counts a lot more than just being MIA (Missing In Alabama).

My only point is that diesel should just STFU about “from a military perspective” until when or if he has one. Until he does he’s just a loud mouth wannabe. Wannabe23.

I missed Vietnam by a few months, but virtually all of my drill sergeants, platoon sergeants, first sergeants, sergeant majors and commanding officers spent time in country. Not a single one of them came home with the same attitude regarding war as what they left with. Most were somewhat bitter and disillusioned about how the war was conducted and why.


Who are you voting for? Did you vote for billclinton?
I am voting for George W. Bush. By the way, these are direct questions. Please give direct answers.

Numbers 5 and 7 are not facts. They are opinions. There is a difference.

It’s entirely understandable that Kerry came back disillusioned and against the Vietnam War. There’s nothing immoral about that. But how he voiced his opposition was to repeat lies about his fellow soldiers in front of the U.S. Congress. In lieu of a statement of regret, that was immoral.

US=GG, I voted for Ronald Reagan twice, George Bush once, Bill Clinton twice and Al Gore once. I would have voted for our local dog catcher over George W. Bushleague. He’s a piece of shit and will go down as the worst president in our nation’s history. I’ll vote for the ABB (Anybody But Bush) candidate this fall, but I would personally prefer Edwards or even Dean over Kerry.

Funny thing is it’s not really the jackass Bush I have such a problem with, he’s almost a non-factor. It’s all the assholes he surounds himself with. Karl Rove, John Ash-hole, Don Rumsfeld, Dickhead Cheney, etc. (Wyoming has only one representative, out of 435. I voted for Dickhead Cheney when he was our Congressman. I figured, “Hey, if its one against 434, we should make sure OUR asshole is the biggest asshole of the bunch.”)

The Bill of Rights is something I would gladly have fought and died to protect, and these cocksuckers are pissing all over it and everyone who everyone who ever has fought and died to protect it. I only hope enough people wake up to that fact before November.


Thanks for your honesty.

You wrote, “I don’t really care one way or the other, but he has a military record and Bush doesn’t. Being in country counts a lot more than just being MIA (Missing In Alabama).”

You are a complete hypocrite. You voted for billyboy twice. He was called to service. He refused. He wrote a letter. He hid in England. How do you justify that? YOU VOTED FOR HIM TWICE?!? That is unbelievable.

You are wrong about George W. Bush’s place in history. There will be thoughtful biographies of him well into the next century. In the near term, I will be here to refute you and others. The revisionists will be met with some SERIOUS RESISTANCE.

By the way, what is “Missing in Alabama?” Did you read my other post concerning this issue. Let me sum up: CNN reported that his commander, Bill Calhoun, remembers George W. Bush FULFILLING HIS ALABAMA SERVICE. Read CNN if you doubt me. You owe him a sincere apology. If you don’t apologize, then you are another bitter reprobate who puts party over principle.

hillary/chuckschumer in 2004!!!

“You are wrong about George W. Bush’s place in history. There will be thoughtful biographies of him well into the next century.”

HAHAHA, that’s a good one. Oddly enough, I agree…well sorta. 50, 100, 200 years from now, historians will be able to look back and pinpoint, with some degree of accuracy, that the demise of the American Empire began in 2002 with the appointment of Bushleague as president.

Just not sure if “thoughtful” will be the proper description, though.


You wrote, “that the demise of the American Empire began in 2002 with the appointment of Bushleague as president.”

This sentence intrigued me on different many levels. I’m used to democrats being emotional and illogical. However, this sentence illustrates a degree of laziness and misunderstanding that is quite unique. Instead of pointing out to you the fact that George W. Bush was ELECTED under long standing electoral laws in THE YEAR TWO-THOUSAND or asking, “WHAT IS THE AMERICAN EMPIRE?” perhaps I should use you to verify many of my assertions about democrats. Thanks may be in order. Please continue to post.

USGG, Oops, sorry about the date thing, maybe I had one too many of those Red Hook IPAs. I meant 2000.

I should probably rephrase the “empire” statement too:

The decline of the United States as a world superpower will someday be traced back to the Supreme Court appointment of Bushleague as president.

I think Kerry must be scaring the hell out of you republicats, don’t know why else we’d be seeing so much hate from you this early in the game. Maybe you realize the truth: The only reason Bushleague was even in the running was because of all the Gore votes that went to Nader. Now give those votes to Kerry, plus the clear majority that voted for Gore anyway and suddenly you have a clear enough majority that this time Bushleague won’t be able to steal it, even with the Supreme’s help. Now add in all the Republicats who don’t like trillion dollar debt and do like their civil rights, and now you have a real problem. I guess I’d be scared too.

tme: US=Good Guys did ask a straight foward question? So, I guess you are voting demorcartly either no matter who gets in Kerry, Dean, or Edwards?


“I’ll vote for the ABB (Anybody But Bush) candidate this fall, but I would personally prefer Edwards or even Dean over Kerry.”

Which part of that statement did you find confusing?