T Nation

Just Started TRT

Newbie here, so bear with me. My T levels have been low for several years, and I finally decided to start TRT. I’ve been lifting for years and nothing seems to heal anymore, so I’m hoping this will help with that. Oh, and I realize this is the 35+ forum (I’m only 29), but my levels are so low that I figure this would be the place where I could get the best info. Here are my levels.

Total Testosterone - 322. Range: 262-1593
Free Testosterone - 5.4. Range: 9-47
Estradiol - 31.7. Range: 0-56

I took a 400mg intramuscular injection and will take another in a month, and then get blood work done before my third injection to see where I’m at. This is pretty standard procedure I assume? I asked the doc if I could get more in that my levels were so low for my age but unfortunately she wouldn’t bite. I’ve heard of people doing 400mg a week, so I’m not terribly confident that one injection a month is going to get my level up to the 1200 or so it should be at.

I’ve read a lot about taking Armidex/Anastrozole in combination with the Testosterone, but needless to say the doctor made no mention of it. Is this something I definitely should be doing, or should I wait to see if my Estradiol is elevated next time they do the blood work before starting with it? (From what I read it sounds like I should start with it now).

Also, where would I get it? Do I need a prescription? I briefly looked online and it appears a 1mg tablet will run around $3, is that what I should expect to pay? The liquid form seems to be considerably cheaper, is that a viable option? Also, I believe I read I should take 1mg per week, is that also correct?

Any help/advice with this would be much appreciated. Thanks.

400 a month in one injection? That would create a huge peak and a very low low wich would also create estrogen problems. 100 a week would be much better and Armidex/Anastrozole would be a good idea.You can order from a research chem company in liquid for for cheaper.

With Armidex it’s a very induvidal thing, 1mg a week is good for some, I split a half mg over three doses as well as split my shots into two doses which would be another good option for you. But I would not do the 400mg shot per month it will put you thru hell. I have done 200 every two weeks and thats bad enough. Good luck.

Thanks for the response. Yeah, I’ve definitely heard about the peaks and valleys with the 400. I basically just wanted to see what that peak would be like to get an idea of how much better I could feel with the increase (I wanted a noticeable difference).

I was afraid that since my levels were so low if I started with 100 or 200 it would have a negligible effect. Once I figure out exactly how much I need I’ll likely go to twice a month (or possibly even weekly) to keep things a bit more steady.

As for the liquid Arimidex (Liquidex I guess), are there any sites people could recommend, because I’ve looked a little and found very limited results (I’d also prefer to not order from a sketchy website if at all possible).

Seems like $55 for 30ml is the going rate? Also, what is the difference between Arimidex, Clomid, and Novaldex? Thanks in advance.

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[quote]BGDDYKWL wrote:
I took a 400mg intramuscular injection and will take another in a month, and then get blood work done before my third injection to see where I’m at. This is pretty standard procedure I assume?
[/quote]

No! As Chushin said, this is a bullshit protocol.

More evidence she has her head up her ass.

Yes and No. Arimidex is the name of the prescription medicine. However, the chemical name of the same exact compound is anastrozole and you don’t need a prescription to buy it.

Absolutely.

It is a reasonable starting point.

[quote]
Any help/advice with this would be much appreciated. Thanks. [/quote]

My advice is get a better doctor. Believe me I know what a monumental hassle that can be, but in your case, at your age, you are a complete idiot if you don’t do it. Your doctor is going to fuck you over and you’re going to PAY HER TO DO IT!!

Seriously…

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[quote]happydog48 wrote:

Also, I believe I read I should take 1mg per week, is that also correct?

It is a reasonable starting point.

[/quote]

I would start with even less. .25mg Every 3rd day. Its much easier to start low and go up than vice versa.

Thanks for the responses.

[quote]Chushin wrote:

  1. Monthly shots is just asking for misery.

  2. Your estradiol may already be a problem at that value.

Not to be rude, but any doctor who would agree to / prescribe monthly shots is one that I’d run away from. [/quote]

I’ve heard the monthly injections are bad due to the peak/valley nature, but aside from that are there other things to worry about? I have one more 400 injection scheduled in 3 weeks, then I get my blood work done before I decide on doing weekly, monthly, or whatever after that.

[quote]happydog48 wrote:
My advice is get a better doctor. Believe me I know what a monumental hassle that can be, but in your case, at your age, you are a complete idiot if you don’t do it. Your doctor is going to fuck you over and you’re going to PAY HER TO DO IT!!..[/quote]

I assume an anti-aging type clinic would probably be where you’ll find the most well-informed docs for TRT. Have you found that to be the case?

My main concern here was to find a doc that was very willing to administer injections, and agreed that my levels should be closer to 1200 at my age rather than simply being “in the range”. As for the anastrozole, if she won’t prescribe it then I’ll just take it on my own and keep close track of the estradiol levels on the blood work.

Assuming I go to injections every week or two (which I probably will) and also keep a close eye on the estradiol levels, is there anything else I’d have to worry about if I stuck with this doc? I realize it’s ridiculous that I have to do some of this on my own when the doc should be the “expert” on the matter, but this is very convenient for me, and I’ve heard of a lot of docs who wouldn’t be willing to get me anywhere near 1200, so at least in that regard this works.

This is just a general question, but what have been some of the higher dosages you’ve heard of people taking? I’m afraid that 400 a month just isn’t going to be enough to experience a noticeable difference. Just curious as to what potentially I could be looking at having to take each month. Thanks.

Yes. If you want to understand the specific details, it helps to start with a good handle on the big picture. The big picture here is how your body should work. With regards to testosterone, the natural cycle is for levels to rise and fall slowly and by small amounts over the course of a day. Slamming 400 mg all at once is about as far away from the natural cycle as possible. This isn’t just a philosophical objection. Your body is a complex system and this sort of massive flood of testosterone is going to trigger massive reactions like a flood of aromatase. If you don’t understand what that is all about… you should.

Low testoserone isn’t like having a headache. It’s not a small problem with an easy fix. Low testosterone values are associated with a large range of health problems, not the least of which is cardiovascular disease. You’re looking at the possibility of an early death if you don’t get this sorted out. If you feel that convenience is anywhere in the same ballpark of priorities as death, then you’re hopelessly lost already.

Your goal shouldn’t be numbers on a blood test. You goal should be to feel and function like a normal, healthy MAN every single day of your life. Any protocol that doesn’t achieve that goal is a bad protocol and it needs to be changed.

The only way I can see that it makes any sense at all to stay with this doctor is for you to first seriously educate yourself to all the issues and to understand the HPTA and other body systems involved. You need to understand how your body works if you want to start messing about with it.

Secondly, she needs to be out of the picture as much as possible. Insist on self-injections and start administering them every other day. You also need to be taking hCG, so first understand why and then talk to her about it from a position of knowledge, not from a position of hoping she’ll help just because you ask for it. Get your own anastrozole and then you’ll have the three legged protocol that is the most successful. T + AI + hCG

Good luck! I’m on your side, believe me, but you need to take control of this situation or you will suffer. It’s that simple.

Well put happy.

Thanks again for the responses.

[quote]happydog48 wrote:
Your goal shouldn’t be numbers on a blood test. You goal should be to feel and function like a normal, healthy MAN every single day of your life. Any protocol that doesn’t achieve that goal is a bad protocol and it needs to be changed.

The only way I can see that it makes any sense at all to stay with this doctor is for you to first seriously educate yourself to all the issues and to understand the HPTA and other body systems involved. You need to understand how your body works if you want to start messing about with it.

Secondly, she needs to be out of the picture as much as possible. Insist on self-injections and start administering them every other day. You also need to be taking hCG, so first understand why and then talk to her about it from a position of knowledge, not from a position of hoping she’ll help just because you ask for it. Get your own anastrozole and then you’ll have the three legged protocol that is the most successful. T + AI + hCG

Good luck! I’m on your side, believe me, but you need to take control of this situation or you will suffer. It’s that simple.[/quote]

I’ve looked into getting the anastrozole, so that’s not a problem, and apparently it is important to at the very least go to weekly injections, so I’ll do that as well. As for the HCG, I read up on it online (as well as on here), and from what I can gather I could do 250iu 2 days before my weekly Test injection, as well as 250iu the day prior to the injection, does that sound about right?

Basically I’d be looking at weekly 100mg injections of Test, along with 2 (250iu) injections per week of HCG, along with somewhere between .5mg-1mg of Arimidex per week. Does this sound like a reasonable plan?

Also, if there is anything else I need to watch for or be aware of I’m all ears. Thanks.

This is almost exactly where I ended up after some research and some PMs with a few knowledgeable members. Im at 100mg Test E3D and 250iu HCG EOD with 1mg/week Adex in divided doses. Im just starting, so hope to be able to share some blood work values after my next test.

Also, as a suggestion for those that are concerned with frequent doctors visits, I insisted that I would like to learn to do the injections myself and self administered in the doctors office to demonstrate ability to handle the task.

After two office visits, I was given everything in larger quantities and was then able to adjust for a more balanced dosing protocol.

(Minor Hijack- in reference to a thread i started, does anyone have experience with fertility on a protocol like this. I understand why it should be fine but was hoping for some first hand experience)