I have been getting my lab work done for the last 3 months and the highest my test level has been is 171, my free test was on the very low end of the scale also every test (sorry I dont have the exact numbers). I am 34 and have been feeling like shit for the past year (lethargy, depression, anxiety, etc.), even though my libido and erections have continued to be fine. Anyways I was wondering what kind of gains you guys who have done TRT have had in the gym. I have had a hard time adding muscle over the last year even eating 3500 calories and 1.5 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight. I am hoping that this changes things a bit. If it helps the dr started me off at 200mg of test cyp every other week and I have to go back in 6 weeks to get my bloodwork done again. I just hope that the other symptoms go away and that I can start enjoying my life again.
My strength has gone up since starting TRT, and my recovery is better. But that is a piss poor reason to go on TRT. The other benefits (basically I don’t feel like shit anymore) are far and away better than anything you might want to attain in the gym.
Every 2 weeks is a bad protocol. Read the stickeys to find out why.
I am reading the stickies and i am seeing that it is best to inject 100mg once a week at a minimum and take the adex and HCG along with it. How do I get my Dr to give me HCG and adex? They didn’t mention anything about it and I definitely don’t want to mess up my nuts.
You start by asking them and being able to counter their objections with research and studies showing its effectiveness. Dr. John Crisler has a paper entitled “TRT: A recipe for success”. It is a good basis that many have had success with. You can find it in one of the stickys (I forget which one) or google it.
Also, read the Finding A Doctor sticky if this does not work. That sticky explains ways you can find a doc open to Adex and HCG.
You can also source it on your own through overseas pharmacy’s, depending on your tolerance to venture into gray legal areas.
Here are a few titles you could try Googling, I got them for free one way or another over the 'net. If your Doc won’t prescribe them, and he probably won’t, again Google is your friend.
Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression
A Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled, Randomized Clinical Trial of Recombinant Human Chorionic Gonadotropin on Muscle Strength and Physical Function and Activity in Older Men with Partial Age-Related Androgen Deficiency
Effects of Aromatase Inhibition in Elderly Men with Low or Borderline-Low Serum Testosterone Levels
Effects of eight weeks of an alleged aromatase inhibiting nutritional supplement 6-OXO (androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione) on serum hormone profiles and clinical safety markers in resistance-trained, eugonadal males.
Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males
Grape Seed Extract Is an Aromatase Inhibitor and a Suppressor of Aromatase Expression
AROMATASE INHIBITOR THERAPY FOR ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION
So let me be clear, if i dont take HCG and adex you think that i am for sure going to lose function on my nuts and they are going to shrink up like a pre-pubesent boy eventually? Since I just started approx how long before the damage is done and once it is done can it be reversed with HCG after the fact?
There is not data about what you are asking and individual response is highly variable. So recovery is unknown. The longer you are shutdown you can expect more of a problem.
Post some lab results with ranges when you get that. Come back to this post.
Make sure that you test E2.
Tell the doc that you need to self inject and then inject twice a week. Then do labs 1/2 way between injections.
Lab work two weeks after an injection is as bad as how you are going to feel.
[quote]BSC819 wrote:
So let me be clear, if i dont take HCG and adex you think that i am for sure going to lose function on my nuts and they are going to shrink up like a pre-pubesent boy eventually? [/quote]
No. But you do need to know the signs and what to look out for. Obviously shrunken nuts is one. Watch for scrotal sack pulling up tight. A midday crash can also indicate lack of pregnenolone production (via not enough cortisol), which the testes contribute.
I personally have not needed HCG thus far. Thousands of men out there are doing just fine on injections or gels alone with no adex or hcg.
As KSMAN said, it is highly variable. Be smart and proactive working with your doc.
^^^Forgot to type my last sentence before hitting enter:
Do not take medications unnecessarily until you have a demonstrated need. Less is more is better.
Ok, cool. Thanks guys for the advise. I made the choice to take TRT and I feel like my doctor is pretty good. It made me nervous because I am only 34 and dont want to lose my testicle health at such an early age. I get labs in about 6 weeks and I will get a copy of them and post the results. Thanks again for all of the help. I am 2 days in and already feel a hell of a lot better than I did before.
I have a weird issue that I need some help with now. I had a strong sex drive before the TRT but I felt like shit all of the time. Now after my first shot of T, I feel great but my sex drive has almost completely disappeared. I thought that I would be even more horney but quite the opposite has happened.
excess T can cause excess Estradiol = no libido
excess T can drain cortisol causing thyroid issues = no libido
excess T will shut down LH/FSH one of which is needed to stimulate Pregnenolone production I believe. Low Pregnenolone = low cortisol and/or low DHEA = either of which could cause low libido
etc.
etc.
etc.
welcome to the wonderful world of HRT Roulette.
Great, i could still preform fine if needed but my sex drive was like that of a 18 year old before i started TRT and now I am not nearly as interested. This is weird, i just thought that I would be walking around with a boner all day by adding test. I wasnt expecting the opposite reaction. Maybe once my body adapts to the extra test, things will start to balance out.
i am also going to inject every week instead of EOW to keep things more balanced. I can live with a lowered libido considering all of my other problems have gone away.
You will do even better injecting twice a week.
I completely agree with the others. I went to twice a week and it stabilized the peaks and valleys I felt as the big load of test worked its way though my system. I wasn’t going 2 weeks between injections but the doctor had me on 200mg once a week and that was bad enough. In my case I found that after 3 weeks my strength gains had stopped, my libido was low, my scrotum was pulling up (but nuts seemed about the same size), I was retaining lots of fluid, and my BP was high. After 6 weeks I had more blood work and while my test was very high, I also had very high E2(110).
In my case (and as has been said, everyone is different) I got on anastrozole and got my E2 down quickly. I lowered my test amount and went to twice a week. These changes allowed my strength gains to resume, my libido returned, fluid retention stopped, and my BP was back to normal. Unfortunately, my scrotum was still pulled up most of the time. That is when I chose about a month ago to get on hCG and inject 300mg twice a week. It solved that problem and my mood seems better too.
I have been doing the dance with HRT for about 4 months now and feel like I am getting close to what I hoped for. Just got labs done and am waiting a few final tests and will know for sure.
As for the gym, I have gained up to 30% in most exercises. My body fat is now dropping off too. My weight is about the same but it has nicely moved around.
BSC,
At 46 yrs old I was feeling the same way as you were. Bad attitude, depression and very irritable. I visited my doctor and had a complete blood scan done in hopes of finding the problem. However, all levels were normal, but my test levels; 110. The doctor gave me several alternatives, but I chose 200mg injection every two weeks. Hell, I have been on test for about a year and get my blood work done every 6 months. Unfortunately, what I have experienced is the injections did not jump start my own body in producing test. I suspect I’ll stay on test as long as my blood levels remain good and I feel the results.
The best result I have experienced from test is the feeling of well being. When my levels were low I did not care if I was dead or alive and that stemmed from the depression. Now, I have a feeling of calmness and am very relaxed.
Anyway, I have more incentive to get to the gym because of the physical change I see in a mirror; increase in muscle mass and strength. Hell, I shortened the two week period to 12-10 days when I know I’ll be home from traveling for several weeks. Just think…a 47 year old man that continues to get stronger with the proper suppliments, diet and test.
Hope this helps from another person that had low test.
Ok, guys just to give an update. My labs came back about a month ago and I dont have the exact numbers but my test levels went from 170 to 860 and my e3 levels were great and they just said less than 15. All of the other stuff that my doctor tested for came back perfect and I feel great except for 1 thing, I am finding that I am very sluggish especially in the mornings. It dont matter how much sleep that i get I am still somewhat tired throughout the day. What should i have my doc test? Thyroid, adrenaline? anything else?
8am blood cortisol (or 4times daily saliva cortisol test) plus TSH should be measured regularly when on HRT. If TSH > 1 AND you have symptoms, then you should request FT4, FT3, and Reverse T3. Ferritin, B12, and D25-OH testing can be helpful as well.
if your doctor is open to it, testing DHEA-S and Pregnenolone can possibly give you some helpful markers.
[quote]BSC819 wrote:
…and my e3 levels were great and they just said less than 15. [/quote]
You want to test E2, not E3