T Nation

Just Ranting

This is definitely off-topic. Every time me and my father try and talk or get together we end up arguing. He has never supported anything I do. After my first and only bodybuilding show that I placed second in I came home with my trophy and he said “I could have one of those too, they cost 50 cents on the street corner”. Now I’m not too confrontational so I just let most of that shit slide. But last night I think I had it.

We started arguing over gun laws. I said that I believed that you are able to cary a pistol in an over the shoulder holster, with a permit of course. (In CT) He began saying no and that I don’t know anything and he took the course blah blah blah. I am about to take the course but I said that doesn’t mean I can’t read the gun laws and I believe but am not sure that a shoulder holster is okay. He then got pissed as I continued and said “forget it, stop talking” so trying to avoid another fight I did. I was silent then he started with me again and I said “Forget it, I don’t wanat to know so end it” Well that pissed him off to no end. Then I got this
“Listen here, we’re gonna start playing the roles I’m the fucking father and your the son. I say forget you don’t fucking say shit. Who the fuck are you to say that. …”

Well I just started breathing in through the nose and out the mouth. I was pretty angry. Up until know my father has been a hero of sorts to me even though we couldn't get along. But last night seemed to push me over the edge. I've never had a violent feeling towards my Dad but last night I wanted to kick his ass so bad! I have always been afraid of my dad, not a small man. But last night I was afraid to say anything else to him, part of the reason is b/c he is my dad the other part b/c I was afraid I may end up hurting him. I'm not to small either and have been traing in martial arts for a little while.

I guess what I’m getting at is how far do you let your father go? I mean I don’t ever think I would hit him but even just to stand up and say Fuck You or something a little more thought out. Anyone have similiar issues? Sad part is all I ever wanted is to be pals somewhat, talk about my training, work outside whatever. I don’t want to sob on each others shoulder but a couple of things to do together wouldn’t have been so bad.

Print and show him this letter.

Becoming violent or taking him on physically would definitely not be the way to go. From what you’ve said, it seems as though your father must be right at all times. And he doesn’t seem to recognize other people’s opinions or thoughts as being correct. It’s probably something to do with his upbringing or some issue that he has. I’ve known people like this, and it is the most aggravating thing to deal with. You did good by standing up for yourself and what you believe. If he cannot accept that, then he needs help to deal with his own underlying problem.

Dale - I would do that but he wouldn’t take it seriously. That would be like a sign of weakness to him.

Nate - I agree but how do you get someone who is always right to admit they have a problem when they don’t think they do, it becomes a circular argument.

I do agree hitting my dad would definitely not be the right thing. But lately I’ve been so angry at life that I feel like exploding. He’s got me that pissed off. And if you ask anyone in my family normally they would say I am too laid back.

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I’m just pissed that I’ll never have a relationship with my dad that I see other people having. I’d never thought I’d be one of those problem family people.

I use to say my father was my hero but for the first time in my life I can really say I’d rather be dead than end up like that.

Thanks

Try to avoid it but fights can happen, my whole life my dad could kick my ass, scary strength, but the day I knew I could take him relieved me. I knew my strength, skill and speed, as did he. Made me realize fightings a waste, that said shit happens. When my brohters and i fight sometimes we gut cut and break stuff, but 5 minutes later were cool again, fathers are the same. If it comes to blows, u should know exactly how far ure willing to go, and if you live in his house, what the consequences are. My 2 cents

Beat his ass, it’s part of growing up.

I’m guessing you still live with your father. So the alpha male thing could sometimes come into play… especially with a son that’s becoming a man, being able to have independant thoughts, physically look like a man… etc These things will happen. You father might not have been right to address you the way he did… But life isnt fair :slight_smile: Think about it a minute. What is a home for a man? It suppose to be the only place you dont get shit on. One where you could finally escape your boss or clients and be free to be who you are. Its suppose to be the one place that makes sense and be happy. PArt or being happy is being able to bitch about gun laws without having your son thinking you are an idiot :slight_smile: Anyways… alot of us go through it. But I will tell you this… the day you decide to move out I’m sure you’ve have a much better relationship with him. And I’m not telling you to move out just for that reason… but the day you will you will notice alot of changes… Believe it or not… he’ll probably be your hero again :wink:

I have to agree with sewerhooker - I hated my old man - When I’d hear him driving up to the house I’d freak and try and hide. I wont go into all the shit he did but I really wanted him dead. I lived with it and I fought with him every day. I moved out and after about a year everything changed. Maybe he realized that he was an ass my whole childhood but we get along really good now and he is a completely different person. I talked to him about it about a year ago when we were having a drink and all he said was his dad treated him hard and so that’s the only way he knew.
Best thing you can do is talk to him about it like an adult and tell him how you feel.

Beating your father up is not part of growing up. That is the dumbest thing I have heard. As long as you live with him, just try and get along and avoid confrontations as much as possible. Just say “You’re probably right” and let it go. A physical confrontation with your father will destroy any possible future relationship. I agree with the comment that once you are out on your own, your relationship will more than likely improve. mine did. Unfortunately my father died 6 months after I moved out. I regret the time we spent arguing over irrelevant things. On another topic, what show did you compete in, where in CT are you and where do you work out? I am in Killingworth. I went to the World Gym in Branford but mostly work out at home now although I am still a member.

I think the major thing is that you address how you feel in some manner. Now you can try adn talk to him and if he blows you off, so be it, at least you tried, and to my mind that gives you some degree of freedom to walk away from his words. Thumping him is not constructive [and if he is as intransigent as you suggest you may just break your hand on his head]

What you can’t do is keep swallowing your hurt as that will eventually become bitterness. The other thing I would advise you to avoid is people who say “put yourself in his shoes” because you can’t, your experiences and perspectives are not the same.

That it’s your father’s house is true, but you also have a right to be heard and to be you - don’t buy into the pater familiaris bullshit, but nonetheless you have to be strong while acknowledging your father’s right to be himself. As others have said, once you move out things will improve.

Sorry about your problem, bro. For what it’s worth though, I’ll tell you about how I felt EXACTLY like you do now for most of my life. While I look back on those things, it’s easy to say that they were petty and most of our arguments were over trivial things (much like gun laws). In the case of my father, it is no wonder why he acts the way he does based on the way he was raised by HIS father. It’s good that we’ve been able to realize, however, that if we have children of our own, we know how NOT to act in some ways.
For what it’s worth though, one time I came home from college when I was 20. He still imposed the curfew I had in high-school (1:00 AM on all nights), and I only had a few days to visit with my old buddies (night-owls). On one Saturday night, I came home at about 3:00 AM to find the door locked. I was able to wake up my mom (from outside) and get her to unlock the door (who didn’t care that I was late at all). Afterwards, though, my dad somehow woke up and started to get angry at my mom for not honoring HIS rules. I got pissed and told him that his rules were ass-backwards and that mom had just as much right to set the rules of the house as my dad. This is when we both started getting extremely angry. He felt like he could still tell me to do anything he wanted and that he ALWAYS could be in charge. To say the least, I ended up with a black eye and he was hurting pretty damn bad the next day too. Now I’ll wrap up the story. It took until he was in his 60’s to apologize about his entire outlook and method of parenting. He even started crying and told me how his children were the single most important part of his life. So, the basis of my story is that your dad probably doesn’t even come close to expressing his positive feelings for you due to some internal conflict. Know that you each love each other and you should take the first step even though he should be the more responsible one. It’s hard, but chances are, it’s harder for him. Good luck, and don’t kick his ass like I did! Peace out!

Don’t fight with him - it’s not worth it. You have to be more of a man than him and not get into a physical confrontation - only use force to protect yourself (outside the family, now that’s something else). I hated my dad growing up, too. He was very threatened by me as I was very smart as a kid, and very independent, and he was fairly ignorant as a result of his background. I excelled at everything and he excelled at nothing. This led to big, big trouble for me. We had confrontations almost daily, and I took his blows many times… I always resented the fact that he never said he loved me. Thirty years later I am bigger, self confident and more mature. I realize that he was a product of his rearing and his times, that all in all, he is a good man and never hated me. As he is starting to confront his own mortality, a couple of weeks ago, he said to me, “I love you”. I waited forty years to hear that, but it didn’t affect me the way I thought it would, because I had already concluded that he indeed loved me. So if you really want a chance at a normal relationship sometime in the future, do everything you can to avoid a physical confrontation. I believe you can do that - if you are disciplined enought to train, you have the inner strength you need. Good luck.

Walker, it would help to know how old you are and what your domestic situation is (i.e. whether you still live with your dad or not). Other than that, there’s been a lot of good advice given here. (In fact, everyone has given good advice aside from one person who’s name I won’t mention except to say that it sounds a lot like “lower intestine” - his advice has got to be the silliest shit I’ve seen on this forum so far.) Personally, I like Dale’s thought. it might seem like showing weakness to your dad…but then again it might just show him a different side of things, one that he wasn’t aware of. You never know until you try.

you know what is great about me and my dad, we have kicked each others ass’s about 10 times and 2 hours later we are best freinds again, some time’s i just got to slap his ass, but i must say since i have went to college we never fight when i go home, so maybe you should move out.

Use     silence      as a tool

He uses drama and emotion as devices to manipulate people, to make them react

use emotional detachment, loud and aggressive people don’t know how to handle that level of sophistication

be

like

water

make a plan to moving out on your own ASAP, its time to leave soon


don’t push… pull

i was this guy just a couple of years ago. i grew up with my dad intimidating me my whole life. i crosses over to where i was scared of everyone because i hade this person at home intimidating me all the time. it ruled my life, and put me in counseling with a medical diagnosis of dysthymia. then, after i got married, he tried to continue. a man can only take so much. i had started lifting weights after the military, and had become a large person myself (6’3", 230) and had taken a final bout of verbal abuse. he had always told me if i got too big, he would get a 2x4 and take care of me. i was 26, had my own home, a wife and figured it was time to end it. he called, we fought, he threatened, and it just took words. “don’t ever threaten me again unless you intend to back it up, i’m not a kid anymore and we can talk to each other like adults, or we can handle this like children. you tell me” now it took a while for him to speak to me again, but he came over, apologized and it hasn’t happened since. i would never hurt my dad, and have since realized that he is and unhappy person overall. i now just feel sorry for him. its simply a matter of stating that you will not stand for the behavior anymore. then leave the decision in his hands.

I think the big issue is him not being supportive of anything you do. That is pretty common, but I think it’s the worst thing a parent can do. After you move it, it may get better or not, but at least you can take him or leave him more easily. IN the meantime, maybe just talk to him in a calm way about why he does not support you. He obviously has self-esteem issues…his own insecurity prevents him from wishing the best for you.
I realize more and more how lucky I am. My dad was the coplete opposite, sorta. ALthough he was not really enthusiastic about anything, anything I did was OK, and he was not threatened by any success I had. And we have never argued, really…

Avoids Roids - I’m from Bridgeport. The closest gym to you I trained at was Gold’s in N. Haven, awesome gym. I used to have a girl in Clinton so I was up that way alot. But I have been a member of just about every gym in Fairfield County. I competed in the Milford County in '99. It’s a small show you may not know it.

Good advice by all. I am 24 and did move out for a while. I moved back b/c I was suppose to return to school for a master’s but that’s not happening. So I find myself stuck at home again. When I was out my Father never came to visit b/c he was mad that I did move out.

I think the alpha male thing is true. To head lions, one pride. Your all right though I know I shouldn’t fight my Father but sometimes anger prevails.

I think basically standing up for myself when need be is the answer. Rolling over makes me feel like shit. But I also need to know which battles to fight.

So basically I’ve accepted the path of least resistance, if I don’t see him then we can’t fight.

Now what I need to figure out is how to get things in order. I recently lost a job I liked and had to start this one which blows to no end. And family life is not the greatest. So I have resorted to self-pity and alcohol. I understand not the smartest move. But I need to shake this and just get back on track.

I literally have no motivation or energy. I sometimes just go home and lock myself in my room for the night right after work.

So any advice on what you guys do in times like this? I think I’ll read Charles Staley’s article as well.

Thanks everyone. Sorry I took a while to get back but I haven’t been around for a while.

OK Walker. Just stay calm and try and get your life together so that you can move out again. By the way, you may know a fellow poster who live in Bpt. He calls himself Goose. I think he is 18. Good luck.