Just Lost My Virginity at 23

To all strange procreation. Why is trump orange? I hear he likes golden showers

Thank you, you just made my night

To add some further complication in the mix:

I was raised a Catholic and therefore guilt-tripped about sexual relations before marriage. My dad was more open minded and when I was about 17 he simply said to make sure I care about the person I get in bed with. At about 20, however, his tune changed and he said that while not to be promiscuous, it was good to find a girl to explore sexuality with. And by 22 he said there was nothing wrong with sleeping with girls.

My sister got married to a 30 year old guy at 22 FYI and since i still lack a SO i am pretty sure my parents think I’m gay.

It left me a bit confused, did he change or was he changing his advice to suit my changing maturity level?

I don’t think his advice changed at all. He seems to be consistently saying that sex should be with someone you care about rather than random hookups, but that it’s healthy and fine in that context.

With which I agree.

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Healthy and fine in the context of someone i care about, otherwise, or both? Thanks in advance for clarifying

Not sure I understand the question. Your father seems to be saying to have sex with someone you can like and respect. Don’t have sex with strangers. Caring sex = healthy and fine, but grabbing some handy stranger to get off = not good. I assume that the change in tone comes with your move into adulthood - it may not be practical to expect that you marry the first girl you move into that kind of intimacy with, but sex in the context of caring relationships should be the goal. Tim McGraw crossed over to the pop charts with his “Humble and Kind,” which offers:

Know the difference between sleeping with someone
And sleeping with someone you love
“I love you” ain’t no pick-up line
So always stay humble and kind

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Thanks, now I understand. I think he was advocating doing all effort to find someone for whom I care about. He also told me some of his biggest regrets in life were sexual encounters with women for whom he felt nothing and trivializing it, he said it caused a lot of pain, shame and regret for both parties involved.

I think there’s some sort of healthy medium between being a player and being a sanctimonious person who will not have sex outside of marriage (i.e. why hardcore Christian couples end up marrying at 20), and that was what he was suggesting for me, the middle way

Honest I am glad I’ve waited, I know a now-18 year old girl who had sex first with a 16 year old when she was 16, she said it was terrible, the dude was a jerk and all but forced himself on her. Even being less experienced sexually i think it is possible to gain maturity and the ability to be a better partner in non-sexual ways with age

I think so, too, and that does seem to be what your father is saying. Have sex with girls with whom you’re in a relationship, but be sure to find the RIGHT girl to marry - don’t marry a girl just because you’ve been dating for a year and it’s gotten physical. Sex is just part of the whole. Enjoy it safely (condoms, birth control) but don’t let it control your life.

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Yeah and in all likelihood the girl I marry will probably be after maybe a few relationships that broke up, as much as it would be nice to avoid that. Like I said, I don’t really want to go into a marriage completely inexperienced, I think it’s asking for trouble

From your reply to me, I sense another trait that I see in womanless men. Keep in mind I am not here to excessively criticize or analyze you. I simply empathize with your situation. However, what is common amongst many womanless men is lack of male friends or the inability to connect with other men generally. I seriously do not want to echo any kind of silliness from the PUA crowd and feel funny in saying this, but such a man can’t absorb or develop a sort of masculine energy or hard headedness that is attained by becoming a man in the figurative sense of the word.

Because many young (and some old men), especially these days, are callous, selfish, vice-prone or unintellectual, I believe it is difficult for intellectual, sensitive, and creative men to connect with many of them.

And such men can be intimidating to more sensitive men naturally so. But these men are out there, in everyday life and in the workplace, and if you want to be a real man (I don’t mean tough guy), you’re going to have to navigate amongst, even perhaps hang out with them a bit through your life if you want to meet people and eventually find a woman or go through your work days without losing your mind! I suspect this is why you’ve had some difficulty in the work place, as you discussed in a previous thread.

And the longer you keep hanging with women and little with other men, the more you might be prone to not feeling like romantic material to women.

We shouldn’t overlook the fact that the current dating scene is an utter nightmare, for which I lay blame on the media, feminism, and female empowerment. Ever hear of some of the expectations or life desires of many modern women, not to mention some of the filthy behavior I see in many women these days on a daily basis?

Expand, please? I’m curious. FWIW, I see all sorts of women in terms of age, socioeconomic status, and looks, and their expectations often seem too low to me (poor behavior or disrespect on the part of men), though I’ve certainly encountered lazy and entitled women.

I’ll get back to this. I just saw it and I just have to do some other stuff right now.

OK, perhaps I shouldn’t have said it’s only a matter of expectations that have ruined the dating scene for some men. It is that some women–I believe now more than ever, though they might actually be in the minority of women–have unrealistic expectations of what the typical man is like, even men that might make good fits for them provided that they have some attraction to them.

I’ve seen expectations in terms of salary, profession, personality, and appearance, that when added up, either are unrealistic (meaning such a guy with all desired traits does not exist) or that such a desired man likely will not be met or desired by this man. Anything can happen though. However, there was at one time when I was single when a common statement I heard amongst many women was “I am not going to settle”.

Yes, there are women who put up with a great deal of crap. Some do so because of low self-esteem and on some subconscious level likely feel that they do not deserve good men or that perhaps it’s normal for men to behave in abuse ways. There are in fact many lazy and careless men out there. They don’t give a shit about their women’s feelings, they don’t partake in chores around the home, they don’t attend social and family events with the women, and/or they have lousy tempers and even curse their women out. I’ve heard of some women even sticking around after being called a “f—ing c—”, which I consider revolting.

But let’s get back to the disgraces of women. I work with many women, as I’ve said before. I estimate that women make up 95% or more of the people I work with. Instead of speaking in normal tone, many bark and shout, even when the subject matter of which is spoken is neutral and wouldn’t strike anger or frustration or worry in people. One women I work with has absolutely no manners, regularly curses, bullies, or tries to bully her subordinates, and chooses to use curse words in professional meetings for bodily excretions.

I’ve had two female administrators that regularly pounded their fists on tables, turn red and shout in meetings, and would fly off the handle out of nowhere.

Such women are certainly not lady-like and for the married ones, I have no idea how their husbands put up with their shenanigans. But perhaps they don’t act like that with them. But their behavior is sure a turnoff to men.

Then there’s the women in the current day and age who are constantly speaking of the invisible bogeyman that is oppressing them with his visual expectation. This can be seen in thousands of social media updates in which women expose themselves semi-clothed or without makeup and say stuff like, “I don’t have to live up to anyone’s standards. I am beautiful they way I am,” and “F— your beauty standards,” and so on, as if there are people out there who give a rat’s ass about such matters when they are handling serious matters. Actually many of the women, many who are ordinary looking or chubby, are in fact good looking and could attract men (and often do have men), so I wonder where the hell this oppressive bogeyman with unrealistic standards resides. Many men are just trying to get ONE ordinary woman that blends into a crowd, let alone a supermodel.

Then there are the “don’t mess with me”/careerist/overambitious women who constantly bark and bellow, “I don’t need a man” and “I’m not gonna let anyone tell me what to do”, many of whom put career ahead of men and families. If such women choose to fall in love with the gym or their career, then that’s fine. But they certainly don’t make themselves available to men, so there’s a crowd right there that men have to stay away from if they don’t want to waste their time going on dates with.

Although I am only 37, I believe the aforesaid types of women were in significantly smaller numbers several decades ago.

There are other forces that are turning men into confused half-pints. One only has to turn on The View every afternoon to see anti-male bigotry–particularly anti-white male bigotry, but definitely general anti-male–on full display.

Men are now taught or expected to be over-sensitive, non-discriminatory, non-judgemental, and to be accepting of everything they (or many) find repugnant.

Being I will be having a kid in five months, I’ve been asked questions regarding who I would prefer or not prefer my future child to date or welcome in my home. When I answered honestly, I’ve had people say, “Wait you can’t do that,” and “It’s a different era,” as if a father’s preference means nothing in regards to who goes in his home or with who he wants to create an extended family.

So in essence society is creating unmanly men.

This is just my take on it. I’m not god and I don’t know everything and I might be wrong. I am likely biased because of my personal experiences, as is everyone else!

Agreed to mostly everything above, you do assume though that I haven’t encountered some of the unrefined, aggressive guys who intimidate and make life hell for guys who aren’t out to just be an asshole. I’ve encountered them everywhere, in the city, at my jobs (ranging from factories to construction),and while I have to say that it is good to be aware of them and how to hold your own in those scenarios, I have no desire to become an asshole. Seriously. I don’t have to prove to myself how much of a jerk I can be to myself, pretending to be insensitive at times might help get me by (when in Rome), but I’m pretty sure the woman I eventually want will run the other way if it is anything more than an act, especially if the act carries over into the personal relationship.

My one sister is a rape victim and the other a victim of domestic violence, I’ve seen it enough to have no desire to try to be that way.

As far as speaking your mind - yes! Sometimes there are times you just have to say what needs said because the need for it to be said outweighs the consequences of stepping on someone’s toes. I generally do so but I am wary of it if my job is at stake, as hard as it can be to bite your tongue (the American min. wage workplace is fucked up, sexist, racist, but that is another story).

For example, there was a guy who came in the other day who REFUSED to let men make his food, I started to but a girl stopped me and told me he was a regular who preferred the “old fashioned” style of hospitality. I bit my tongue but what I wanted to say was - do you know what would have happened if it was the other way around, or he wouldn’t let a black person make his food? Whole different story.

Someone else linked this to me on here ages ago, I have to say it’s the simplest and best explanation of what I would like to shoot for

Brick, as often happens, there’s nothing in your post I can disagree with, but I believe the women you describe have their equal opposites in similar men, though the presentations of those men may differ slightly. You often advise men to find “average” women, offering that they would have better luck if they shop in their price range, as it were. That advice often sounds sad or harsh or something. “You’re not that great yourself, so you need to find someone equally unimpressive.” But as you know, you’re right. Both men and women can have unrealistic expectations.

I have - we have all - met boorish, aggressive men. I have met similar women, though in all honesty I encounter far less of these, and I also work in health care. More often I meet women I don’t respect for their lack of compassion toward our patients or their laziness and lack of competence generally. I’m not sure whether my presence inhibits women from acting as you describe - very possibly. I’m going to guess yes, I give off a vibe that would discourage that.

The anti-male bigotry is real, but so is its equal opposite, and here I’m talking about social stuff rather than women’s rights in the political sense. Men still joke about the ol’ ball and chain as women talk about “having a third child” in their husbands, and that is just life. I looked for someone who was above that sort of nastiness (and it IS nastiness) and who was looking also for someone above that. He’s not a child and I’m not a nagging harpy and good luck to the people who frame their worlds that way. They deserve each other.

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I’d just like to say that I personally treat people as individuals. It just seems the easiest way to approach it; start on neutral footing and then let how that person alone treats you determine what you think of them and how you respond to them. Additionally, I’ve found that one of the most fruitless endeavors is in trying to change people. Seriously. People will not change unless they want to.

To tie it in with the topic at hand, a relationship wouldn’t solve any of my personal issues or help me find an identity, at the most it might help me at least think one person out there accepted me as I am. I’m being careful to be honest with myself so I can reach a point where I can be sincere as well as stable.

And another thought on pot, a lot of people say weed “changed” their life. I wouldn’t say it did that so much as reveal different layers and perspectives to life that were already existing but get obscured more with time. And when you do it consistently over a period of years they compound on themselves and it’s a learning thing. It’s fine IMO as long as you are smart about it, key word SMART.

Unfortunately, ‘smart’ is not my middle name. I’m baked like a scone.

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Instead of posting a thread about, I think I’ll derail my current thread which has kinda become a catch-all. Any thoughts on how to stimulate chest hair growth? I’ve had people say “this lad needs some hair on his chest” a few times and it was enough to make me wonder.

Something tells me it would require bulking and increasing chest size / muscle density first

Pocheen. At least somebody told me it would ‘put hairs on my chest’