T Nation

Just Give Up

[quote]Hack Wilson wrote:
i was imitating the lefty goofballs. this is the opposite of my opinion. and it was a joke.
[/quote]

My bad. Sorry.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
JTF is a pathetic troll.

Just ignore the troll.

Hard to ignore hatred and racism. JTF tries to be subtle. Too many young kids read this site. I don’t want them to be fooled by this crap.[/quote]

Says Zap, self-proclaimed Jew Police and protector of all innocent souls.

What I don’t want is for kids to believe that they can’t think for themselves and question details of history without being afraid of being labeled racist, hate mongers.

It’s odd being called a racist by someone who seems to thrive on the fact that 6 million Jews (and not one less) were put to death by ever barbaric ways – as if it’s some perverse fantasy. Maybe someday they’ll find out 9 million actually died, wouldn’t that make you happy?

The difference is, is that YOU NEED six million Jews to be dead and I’m just interested in knowing the unadulterated truth, without the hype and exaggeration, nothing more, nothing less – how that equates to hatred and racism is known only to the people like YOU that would be UPSET to hear that it was 4 or 3 or perish the thought, 1 million dead Jews instead of 6.

Any SANE person would perhaps find some comfort in knowing that many less Jews than previously thought died during the Holocaust. But in “Bizarro World” the racist (the one who supposedly hates Jews), is on a quest to prove that his so-called “hero” was much less successful at killing Jews than everyone thought.

Ironically, if Hitler were alive today he would have been so proud of YOU for the way you shout down dissenters and continue to perpetuate his larger than life persona as one of the best Jew killers in history. What better gift for a megalomaniac?

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:

It’s odd being called a racist by someone who seems to thrive on the fact that 6 million Jews (and not one less) were put to death by ever barbaric ways – as if it’s some perverse fantasy. Maybe someday they’ll find out 9 million actually died, wouldn’t that make you happy?

[/quote]

6 million jews in concentration camps.

Even more than 6 million that were killed on the spot and never even came near a concentration camp.

Another 5 million non-Jews killed in concentration camps.

2-3 million Polish intellectuals that were in the way of creating a slawic slave race.

A few million Russian soldiers living, and dying, under concentration camp like circumstances because of their so called racial inferiority.

Piles of bodies everywhere, whole fields where the gas produced by rotting corpses was producing blood fountains that shot high in the air…

They do not call it the Holocaust/Shoah for nothing, you know?

Somehow people who jump into this discussion, arguing about chimney sizes, the effectiveness of gas chambers and if beloved Adolf ever knew or approved of this atrocities, sniff, allmost allways seem to have an agenda, wouldn?t you say?

I doubt that it is their longing for scientific accuracy.

George Bush is Satan.

[quote]Skystud wrote:
George Bush is Satan.[/quote]

I thought Hillary was Satan?

[quote]orion wrote:

6 million jews in concentration camps.

Even more than 6 million that were killed on the spot and never even came near a concentration camp.

Another 5 million non-Jews killed in concentration camps.

2-3 million Polish intellectuals that were in the way of creating a slawic slave race.

A few million Russian soldiers living, and dying, under concentration camp like circumstances because of their so called racial inferiority.

Piles of bodies everywhere, whole fields where the gas produced by rotting corpses was producing blood fountains that shot high in the air…

They do not call it the Holocaust/Shoah for nothing, you know?

Somehow people who jump into this discussion, arguing about chimney sizes, the effectiveness of gas chambers and if beloved Adolf ever knew or approved of this atrocities, sniff, allmost allways seem to have an agenda, wouldn?t you say?

I doubt that it is their longing for scientific accuracy. [/quote]

Huh, you don’t say? What a paradox…

The CIA and Nazi War Criminals
National Security Archive
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB146/index.htm

CIA to meet on release of Nazi papers
CNN
February 6, 2005
WASHINGTON (CNN) – CIA officials will meet Monday with a government working group in an attempt to resolve whether more records detailing ties between former Nazis and U.S. intelligence should be made public.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/06/cia.nazis/

Jews protest CIA’s Nazi files
February 4, 2005
NEW YORK - The CIA’s apparent refusal to divulge information about America’s “cozy relationship” with some Nazis after the Holocaust has outraged legislators, Jewish officials and members of a government task force looking into Nazi war criminals.
http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/050204/cia.shtml

Documents show CIA covered up Nazi war criminals during Cold War
USA Today
Jun 2006
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-06-06-cia-nazis_x.htm

[quote]m0dd3r wrote:
Lastly, I’d like to say that I don’t think our President has his mind set on world domination or genocide. [/quote]

If you and anyone else believe this, then you need to do some research into
“Project for New Americcan Century.”

The Project for the New American Century, or PNAC, is a Washington-based think tank created in 1997. Above all else, PNAC desires and demands one thing: The establishment of a global American empire to bend the will of all nations. They chafe at the idea that the United States, the last remaining superpower, does not do more by way of economic and military force to bring the rest of the world under the umbrella of a new socio-economic Pax Americana.

Here are some of their articles:

1998 letter to President Clinton, note who it is signed by:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

Ever hear of Mein Kampf? Largely it was ignored until after the war. I propose this letter is our Mein Kampf:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

See for yourself at PNAC website:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Get the picture?

Here is a partial list of members of PNAC:
The PNAC group is led by Chairman William Kristol, other members are Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, James Woolsey, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, James Bolton, Zalmay M. Khalilzad, William Bennett, Dan Quayle, Jeb Bush, Lewis (Scooter) Libby, Elliot Abrams, Dov Zakheim, John Bolton, William Schneider, Jr., Paula Dobriansky, Robert Kagan, Vin Weber, Robert B. Zoellick, Jeffrey Bergner, Francis Fukuyama, Peter W. Rodman, Frank F. Gaffney, Peter Beinart, Daniel Blumenthal, Max Boot, Eliot Cohen, Clifford May, Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey, Michael O’Hanlon, Ralph Peters, Danielle Pletka, Stephen P. Rosen, Randy Scheunemann, Walter Slocombe, James B. Steinberg, Frank Carlucci, Gary Bauer, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Charles Krauthammer, John Lehman, Steve Forbes, Dennis Ross, and Marc Ginsberg.

What I find is that conservatives I debate with have the same tactics:

  1. I am not famaliar with that so you telling me does no good since I dont believe you/your sources

  2. Where is the sources/facts

  3. Once sources and back up documentation is provided, they shut down, say it is too much information, ask for the truncated version, and re-start argument 1 over.

I can fill this screen with links, documentations, facts upon fact, and enough rhetoric to make your head spin, but I find people simply do not want to put the effort in to learn.

The bottom line is that if your not outraged by this administration, your not paying attention and probably get your news from Rupert Murdoch.

Ever hear of Bohemian Grove? Also worth researching.

Hear Ralph Nader speak about it here:

http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/bohos/nader.html

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
You know it’s bad when the folks at Iraq Body Count are criticizing it for overstating civilian casualties…

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/press/pr14.php[/quote]

This website you quote obtains its data this way: “Casualty figures are derived from a comprehensive survey of online media reports and eyewitness accounts. Where these sources report differing figures, the range (a minimum and a maximum) are given. All results are independently reviewed and error-checked by at least two members of the Iraq Body Count project team in addition to the original compiler before publication.”

The website goes further to state:
“Maximum deaths. This is the highest number of civilian deaths published by at least two of our approved list of news media sources.”

Two media sources accounts for their maximum death count?

I have to question the scientific accuracy of their findings.

The John Hopkins study concluded with a 95 percent degree of certainty that the number of ?excess deaths? in Iraq since the invasion ? the number of people who have died in excess of the number that would be expected on the basis of pre-invasion mortality rates ? is between 393,000 and 943,000. The figure of 655,000 is given as the most likely number.

The Johns Hopkins group recruited Iraqi doctors to help in the survey and they obtained death certificates in 92 percent of the cases in the sample population clusters they examined. The results were then projected onto Iraq’s 26 million population in arriving at 650,000 deaths.

The British are also more realistic about reporting the death toll in Iraq. “The Lancet,” Britain’s leading medical journal, published the findings of a research team that pegs the Iraqi casualties as a result of the invasion and steady carnage since at more than 650,000.

[quote]orion wrote:
Skystud wrote:
George Bush is Satan.

I thought Hillary was Satan?[/quote]

her too.