T Nation

Just as Bad as TBT?


I already know how the vast majority of guys on here(and all successful guys) feel about TBT.

Do you feel that an upper/lower split is mostly ineffective as well for the same reason? ie: too much going on at one time and not enough focus on each body part.

I used an upper/lower split for a couple years and definitely got bigger and stronger on it. Now that I have gained some more strength, I feel that I may be too strong for it(too many big compound movements in one workout.)

What are your feelings??


I like upper/lower splits cause you can hit each muscle group every 5 days. I always arranged the split like this: Chest, Shoulders, triceps then back, bis, legs. Pick 2-3 exercises per muscle group and your good to go.

I won't reignite the tbt vs. split debate, but I did go from 175 to over 200 in 12 weeks using a full body 5x5 routine and I wasn't a newb to training either. What works for one person may not work for you, experiment.


you answered your own question. if you feel you have gotten too strong to effectively train half of your body in one session, split it up.


Precisely, so lets PLEASE end this thread before it gets out of hand!

/thread hoping


That's not going to happen. Just because three simple letters are in the title.


The thing is I have nothing against TBT or any other training system. However, we're gonna get someone who's gonna cum (sorry, come) on here and just read "TBT" and all of a sudden start a debate.


Oh, I agree. What's funnier is that the people arguing will think it's some kind of revolutionary information that hasn't been presented 1,000x before.

(And now, just because we've made such a big deal of it, it's not even going to happen.) :slight_smile:


perfect lol


Yup, you said you got stronger and bigger on an upper and lower split then what exactly are you asking? If it works for you then great, just don't go around telling people that it's the ONLY way to train. I myself like to train upper/lower or another 2-way split but sometimes I may go for a 3 way or more split depending on the situation.


Yates, while working his way up the ranks, had a torso (back, chest, shoulders) day and then limbs day (arms and legs). Done on a MWF cycle giving 4-5 days rest between direct sessions per bodypart.

DC advocates something similar. As does Phil Hernon and Leo Costa from OTS. Ive had great success on two way splits done on a "higher" frequency.



oi, thats what i was gonna say! well the first paragraph anyway


one of the problems I find with an upper/lower split is that I can't do many isolation exercises such as lateral raises without turning the workout into a marathon.

p.s. please don't actually post about TBT, the main focus of this thread should be the upper/lower split.


So, let the workout turn into a marathon. OR do a bodypart split. Either devote an entire day to isolation work or tack the appropriate isolation exercises onto to the appropriate workout day.


What's wrong with a W4SB type of split? Or a DC style? One where you do only 1 exercise per muscle group? The frequency should be just enough to recover 2-3 days later.

Not trying to push my views on this, just curious.

This is something I'm trying to work through as well; upper/lower or split.


No upper/lower splits are not just as bad as TBT and TBT works... Give your upper/lower split if it doesn't work go back to the drawing board.. but like everyone is getting at alot of the successful programs out there have upper/lower splits.


I can't even understand this post.


Overload is overload. If you've done nothing but train one way for a very long time you may see significant progress from changing your split.

I'm current doing something similar to an upper/lower split:

Monday: Chest/Shoulders
Tuesday: Squat dominant
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Lat/Trap
Friday: Deadlift dominant
Saturday: Arms

So "technically" you have an upper routine (chest/shoulders) followed by a leg routine (squat dominant) then another upper routine (lat/trap) followed by another leg routine(deadlift dominant). But, it's not exactly your typical upper/lower routine.

I could see it both ways. Just look at the total volume of training per week. You could concievably train chest one day a week for 16 sets OR twice a week for 8 sets each and still get the same total sets per week.


TBT i.e. Waterbury style brought me up from 165 to 220 (current weight). When i got sick of doing 10x3's Lower volume upper/lower splits i.e. Jason Ferrugia style workouts then brought my strength up.
Just my 2 cents


I'll try not to sound like a dick, but I doubt that you are "too strong" for an upper/lower split. Many powerlifters, notably Westside Barbell's lifters, train using an upper/lower split.

However, if you feel that you get better results from using a 1 bodypart/day split, then do that. It ultimately comes down to you trying a program and seeing what works best.


My point is, if I work up to a heavy bench press first, then do heavy military presses later in the same workout, don't you think that the weight I can use on the military presses be compromised since many of the same muscles are involved and will be fatigued? I would hope that I can use more weight if I did those exercises on different days.

Also, an upper/lower split is usually 1 big compound exercise for each movement plane. Doing 4 big compound movements on an upper body day is very fatiguing when you use heavy weight, regardless of the volume.