Juicing in MMA

Most guys have probably heard of the two most prominent cases of UFC Champions being convicted of steroid use (Royce Gracie, Sean Sherk).

So here’s my question:
The MMA Sport is young and evolving. Is there a chance that some association could legalize it? Would that be against the law? Small associations don’t test at all (to my knowledge), which is practically the same. Would the sport suffer, because it’s desperate to be recognized as clean and fair?

Isn’t it time that people see how ridiculous professional sport has become in terms of credibility? The Tour de France has been a major joke since many years, cause everyone knows cycling is only next to Pro BB, yet the media depicts them as shining knights, always ready to rip a “black sheep” to shreds.

Now this year there was a real avalanche of convicted users, mainly because of insiders who blew the whistle.

So why couldn’t be MMA the “icebreaker”?

Perhaps we can discuss a different strategy like allowing athletes to juice, as long as they do it openly (“In preparation for the title shot, I did Nandrolon as well as Test”)

While your at it just legalize angel dust, and cocaine make it real wild. Common on man where did you come from? Do you really think if MMA got rid of steroid testing it would become legal in everyday society?

an organization can not make something legal for their sport which violates Federal and State Law. As soon as the athlete confeses on camera to using the illegal substance he would be arrested.

The organization could be an untested organization, thereby passively encouraging it, but when it became overly apparrent that everyone was juicing they would come under harsh scrutiny and be forced to take some kind of action. Look at what’s happening in wrestling right now.

As soon as the athlete confeses on camera to using the illegal substance he would be arrested.

No he wouldn’t. If he were caught in the act of using the illegal substance he would be arrested, but saying he has done something isn’t breaking the law.

pride fc in japan didn’t test their fighters

that is definitely interesting. I wonder if the japanese audience gives a fuck about steroids.

Right. Many athletes train in different countries for various reasons. For example, if Sean Sherk would do altitude training in Russia, where some steroids are legal, and the UFC would have a simple “no testing” policy, the state couldn’t do a thing about it. They don’t require you to filter your blood at the border.

Probably not, but it would be a step towards honesty.
Personally I’m not fond of any drugs, but the western world really has a hypocritical drug policy.
You can smoke your lungs black, drench your brain in alcohol and it’s all good, but when
a runner from a poor country uses EPO while his rivals have access to a high tech high-altitude house some line has been crossed? Gimme a break.
And regarding cocaine and heroin. Whether legalizing it or not would be a bad idea is another discussion, although it would be certainly better in my opinion. (Less crimnal energy & less police work, more tax-money, more freedom)

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Most guys have probably heard of the two most prominent cases of UFC Champions being convicted of steroid use (Royce Gracie, Sean Sherk).

So here’s my question:
The MMA Sport is young and evolving. Is there a chance that some association could legalize it? Would that be against the law? Small associations don’t test at all (to my knowledge), which is practically the same. Would the sport suffer, because it’s desperate to be recognized as clean and fair?

im sure its ok if the event is held in a location where it is ok the problem is the athletic commission is against it and when you get your athletic liscense your getting cleared of any injurys to compete.im sure the promotion could care less if your on anything its the athletic commission…and smaller shows don’t test because the athletic comission isn’t part of the event so i wonder how kotc and other shows count on your pro record without the comission being there i know they are at some but not all of them…

Isn’t it time that people see how ridiculous professional sport has become in terms of credibility? The Tour de France has been a major joke since many years, cause everyone knows cycling is only next to Pro BB, yet the media depicts them as shining knights, always ready to rip a “black sheep” to shreds.

Now this year there was a real avalanche of convicted users, mainly because of insiders who blew the whistle.

So why couldn’t be MMA the “icebreaker”?

Perhaps we can discuss a different strategy like allowing athletes to juice, as long as they do it openly (“In preparation for the title shot, I did Nandrolon as well as Test”)
[/quote]

you know 90% of the problem in this world is people don’t mind there own business.A track coach sent in the sample of “the clear” to the testing agency why didn’t they keep it to themselves and just catch the abusers who don’t follow the rules of the sport they choose if the sport says no steroids then you shouldn’t use them.Now every media outlet is on a steroid witch hunt and you want mma to break the ice.it’s simple have the fights in other places like bodog is im sure they are having an easy time in other countrys where steroids are legal and no comission to screw with them thats how you can put mat linland against fedor if the nsac was overseeing that event it would have never happened.who cares if they do it openly does that make it fair some guys like them and some would never use them so who cares who uses and who don’t to me it don’t matter…steroids don’t make you hit harder or bodybuilders would be undefeted since they have mastered the whole size ans strength gig but put a bodybuilder against fedor and see what happens well that has been done when he fought coleman he’s a bodybuilder with a lifetime of wrestling and he got pounded…

Neither K-1 or Pride never tested (except in the USA). The Japanese generally don’t give a fuck, and they want their fighters to look like superheros.

It would be a joke…

Koing

No I don’t think steroids belong in fighting, or any professional sport imo. Also legalizing steroids or other drugs will result in more abuse then smart use. The more insane strength fighters get the more likely it will turn into a modern day gladiator, with people dying.

In regular sports athletes are supposed to be role models, and should rely more on their ‘skill’ then just pure strength. Allowing athletes to openly use steroids will cause kids to want to use steroids before they are ready in order to be like their favorite athlete.

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Neither K-1 or Pride never tested (except in the USA). The Japanese generally don’t give a fuck, and they want their fighters to look like superheros. [/quote]

To my knowledge, 'roids are legal & pretty much with the milk & bread in the local supermarkets of Brazil & Japan - thats why those countries dont test in their events & certain fighters can only fight in certain organisations…

I don’t think we’ll be seeing the UFC “legalize” steroids anytime soon. Steroids are just too taboo a subject at the moment (especially with the recent death of Chris Benoit and Barry Bonds becoming the all time Home Run king).

Not to mention that as you stated MMA is still in it’s developmental stage and is more concerned with building respect and legitimacy at present than about being the one to blow the wistle on steroid use in professional sports.

I would agree with you though that there are a lot more professional athletes out there using banned substances than their respective sports would have you believe.

You mentioned the “Tour” guys, yes, they are huge users of banned substances. And according to a guy I work with who has been around several of them, they may actually be bigger user/abusers than professional bodybuilders.

One thing that I don’t think a lot of people realize (at least a lot outside of the MMA/hardcore lifter/T-Nation population) is that a lot of guys use steroids purely for the purpose of improving recovery and working through/around injuries. Not necessarily to allow them to build huge ripped physiques.

Just look at an example like Royce. Now would anyone seriously think that that guy was on steroids if you didn’t know who he was and just walked by him on the street? No. Why? Because he doesn’t look like Ronnie or a professional bodybuilder. Yet clearly according to his test results he was prior to his rematch with Sakuraba.

So, some MMA fighters are easy to spot (Coleman, Randleman, Kimo, Baroni) where as others, due to not fitting the “mold” are much more difficult. I’d honestly have to guess that a larger percentage of MMA fighters (possibly even the majority) use anabolics to speed recovery and improve their work capacity.

But, until the government decides to make steroids legal, I’d expect to see lots more denial of it’s use in MMA and all sports for that matter.

Good training,

Sentoguy

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Neither K-1 or Pride never tested (except in the USA). The Japanese generally don’t give a fuck, and they want their fighters to look like superheros. [/quote]

And since many countries around the world actually allow steroid use (with medical supervision/prescription) it shouldn’t be an issue.

However, I can’t see why any MMA fighter would ever have a legitimate use for steroids such as healing injuries… MMA fighters never have to worry about muscle or joint injuries.

[quote]sjfou wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
Neither K-1 or Pride never tested (except in the USA). The Japanese generally don’t give a fuck, and they want their fighters to look like superheros.

To my knowledge, 'roids are legal & pretty much with the milk & bread in the local supermarkets of Brazil & Japan - thats why those countries dont test in their events & certain fighters can only fight in certain organisations…[/quote]

otoko is the man to clarify what the status in Japan is, but I don’t think steroids are “legal” per se in Japan. But they are easy to obtain, and there is no stigma around their use.

If an American looked at Bob Sapp they would say “OMFG LOLZZZ TEH ROIDS”, in Japan they just see a big strong guy and whatever he did to get that way is something personal and not of public concern. Sakikibara said that Pride tested people and knew what they were on, just for their own sake, but never took any public action against them.

I have heard from some people close to the Japanese fight industry that at certain times opponents requested that if they were to take a match their opponent must be “off” the juice. The particular case talked about was Yoshida fighting Wanderlei, but as I said that is something I heard from a good source and in no way verifiable.

[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
However, I can’t see why any MMA fighter would ever have a legitimate use for steroids such as healing injuries… MMA fighters never have to worry about muscle or joint injuries. [/quote]

Yeah, no injuries at all, haha. Thailand is a popular place for long training camps for more reasons than just it’s good schools.

(slightly off-topic, but it was touched on by the OP)

I don’t understand why everyone keeps harping on about the Tour de France when talking about steroids use/abuse gone wild. That organisation has THE most intensive, rigourous and ruthless testing processes of any sport you can think of. No matter what the consequences, no matter what bad publicity it brings - they test EVERYONE - and ban ANYONE who comes up positive.

Far from being “in disgrace” (as lazy journalists like to scream), the Tour, if anything, has really put its integrity to the forefront.

If anything, we can have more confidence about the steroid non-use of the finishers of this years Tour, than we can about competitors in practically any other sport.

[quote]shizen wrote:
No I don’t think steroids belong in fighting, or any professional sport imo. Also legalizing steroids or other drugs will result in more abuse then smart use. The more insane strength fighters get the more likely it will turn into a modern day gladiator, with people dying.

In regular sports athletes are supposed to be role models, and should rely more on their ‘skill’ then just pure strength. Allowing athletes to openly use steroids will cause kids to want to use steroids before they are ready in order to be like their favorite athlete. [/quote]

Uh, when has legalizing drugs ever resulted in a surge of use afterwards? There are plenty of examples, but the most obvious is the use of alcohol after prohibition. Use remained the same before and after (slightly raised during prohibition incidentally). With steroids, I think the amount of reported use might increase but that is simply a measure of people coming forward and reporting it.

Also, it’s not as if plenty of impressionable young kids aren’t killing themselves every day with drinking and smoking. Look at all the kids who dip because of baseball for chrissakes.

As for sport competition, the rabbit is really out of the bag at this point. Trying to put it back in is kind of a losing battle.

[quote]shizen wrote:
No I don’t think steroids belong in fighting, or any professional sport imo.
[/quote]

I think you’re barking up the wrong tree there.

First of all, I’m really not a real steroid supporter. It’s just a fact that since ancient olympia, athletes try to improve their capabilities through all sorts of “functional food”. They always will. I believe that on some subconscious level, your hard work will justify the means.

If an athlete honestly believes:“I did anything I can physically”, why should he stop himself of trying to supplement his training in all kinds of ways? Especially when others just seem to have an “unfair” edge like having more talent, be it through a body which is naturally better able to cope with the sport or be it because of age or other unattainable things like that.

As Sentoguy already mentioned somewhere here in the thread, steroids are used for strength gains rarely, especially in martial arts. Much more often, they are used for other reasons. Cyclists (ab)use like crazy, and they are probably aesthetically the ugliest athletes this planet knows.

Even with the most liberal drug policy, you will hardly see more Colemans & Randlemans. You will see more fighters who dare to go up a weight class or two. You’ll see more fighters who could recuperate from an old injury and generally more old fighters competing with the youngsters.
Steroids wouldn’t equal more massive fighters and with it, dehumanized matches because some frenzied mass monsters would collide WWE Style.

This way of thinking goes so deep that even guys like Royce won’t admit they juiced. What does that mean? In a recent Interview (read it in a recent Fighters only ) Royce proclaimed:
[b]“Do I look like I’m on steroids? Something’s not right man. Look at me. I walk around at 184/185 lbs. Everybody tries to lose weight, I try to gain weight for my fights. Something’s not right”.

“Do you think I take steroids? OK! That’s what you think. There is nothing I can do to change your mind.”

Hywel Teague:“Well, the test says that you took steroids”.

Gracie: “I know. I sleep well at night man”.[/b]

What we have here is a man who considers “juicing for mass” as a shameful act, because you illegally and foolishly aspire an unhealthy hulkish physique.

What he did, namely taking Nandrolone for being able to stay in shape, isn’t bad in his view, because he’s just maintaining the status quo. All he feels at a subconscious level, is that some referee basically tells him to retire, just because his age shows up.

Role models? Don’t know. I believe this one a relict of the cold war: Let’s show 'em that we’re better then the them!. Olympics as a substitute for war. Showing discipline and commitment to the nation/party.

I don’t know how it is exactly in the US, but in Germany the most popular sportsmen, like soccer stars, are really bad role models. Most of them play unfair, they spew out unintelligent crap and since their managers warn them to not speak up for anything other then sports it’s rare that you see em tell the audience something interesting/provocative/courageous about politics or society.

On top of that, popular athletes are so heavilvy marketed that when they address their fans directly, they do it through fucking commercials. Great role models.

And skill?
I know that in MMA, skill is of utmost importance, more important then in practically any other known sport.

One can easily spot this because of the “improvements” and gadgets in most disciplines. Swimmers in special high tech sharkskin suits, a powerlifters various shirts or the fact that even the coating of the racetrack for the 100 meter dash is getting pimped up- people want to see records. And who honestly thinks that a sport like cycling will experience new breakthroughs in technique. Also, the human body HAS limits.

So, a natural champion like Armstrong or Ulrich has to juice to fully tap and show his potential.
MMA being a definite "skill"sport, I think chances are that transparent use of steroids won’t affect skill.

Besides that, I agree with you on this:

Any suggestions from the others to decrease possibly abuse from minors?

[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
Neither K-1 or Pride never tested (except in the USA). The Japanese generally don’t give a fuck, and they want their fighters to look like superheros.

And since many countries around the world actually allow steroid use (with medical supervision/prescription) it shouldn’t be an issue.

However, I can’t see why any MMA fighter would ever have a legitimate use for steroids such as healing injuries… MMA fighters never have to worry about muscle or joint injuries. [/quote]

Tell me it’s sarcasm

[quote]isr wrote:
(slightly off-topic, but it was touched on by the OP)

I don’t understand why everyone keeps harping on about the Tour de France when talking about steroids use/abuse gone wild. That organisation has THE most intensive, rigourous and ruthless testing processes of any sport you can think of. No matter what the consequences, no matter what bad publicity it brings - they test EVERYONE - and ban ANYONE who comes up positive.

Far from being “in disgrace” (as lazy journalists like to scream), the Tour, if anything, has really put its integrity to the forefront.

If anything, we can have more confidence about the steroid non-use of the finishers of this years Tour, than we can about competitors in practically any other sport.[/quote]

I may find the sport pointless to watch and the athletes’ bodies ugly, but:
I assure that I have great respect for the sheer willpower and determination these guys have to bring forth.

Regarding gear:
Fact is, testing is like an arms race, and the testing processes are always is a few years behind the juicers.

And fact is also, that juicing in cycling is of much more importance then in MMA. In every endurance sport, stuff like EPO will directly transfer to your performance. In Fighting sports, you could argue that too much mass would change your game too much(look at Vitor Belfort).
If you seriously believe that these years tour winners do not juice, you can as well believe that you can get as big as Markus Rühl with twice-per-week fullbody kettlebell training.