T Nation

Juicer's Log


Hi guys,

I have lurked arounbd for a while here but only posted once before.

I have decided to try my first cycle.

I am going ot try the 2 on 4 off protocol as per bill roberts. Depending on how it goes I may continue with such cycles or switch to longer cycles, but I want to experiment with the 2 on 4 off first.

I chose such a cycle for various reasons (too numerous to go into here), but I beleieve the short cycle route is catching on (with Mike Katz being the latest convert) and that was an influence.

I intend this thread to be an consist of ongoing updates into my progress. bot on cycle, during PCT and while off.
The thread will continue through oall my cycles. Hopefully, it will act as a good indicator as to the effectiveness of juice and a good thread for newbies like myself also.

Anyhow, here are my stats:
Age: 22 (nearly 23)
Training age: around 7 years (3-4 serious)
Weight: 185
Bodyfat: dont know. I'm almost always only concerned with bulking and have never really concerned myself with cutting. But I am naturally fairly lean,

Bench: Best bench 315x4, (is 315x3 now though)
Deadlift: 510x2
Squat: 350x5

As you can see, my sqat is crap, although myu other lifts are OK i guess.

I will post details on my first cycle soon.

        CYCLE 1

Days 1-11: 100mg TA eod (150mg F/L)
Days 1-14: 50 mg Dbol
PCT Clomid
Nolva on hand also

Currently I'm into day 6 of this cycle.

On the day I started I also upped my calories dramatically - eating around 6,500 cals now.

You may ask why the low TA dosage? Well, basically I wanted to see how I responded to AAS first before moving on to heavier doses.

I must say, I am not too happy at this point.

The weigth gain has been great - I weighed in this morn at 202Ibs. Up around 12 pounds already. Its the first time I have ever gone above 195. I dont "feel" THAT much bigger but when I look in the mirror I do notice the added size. ALthough a loose T-shirt would defenitley hide the size i think it would be noticeable with a tight T-shirt or topless. I think I have put on a little fat but I still look around the same bodyfat. I do have a more powerful look.

However, the point I am dissapointed on is the total lack of strength gain. To this point there has been ZERO strength gain, which surprised me.
In fact, yesterday, when I was doing deadlifts I was quite a bit weaker than ususal. Normally, I would have gotten 400 for 8 reps but yesterday 375 for 5 felt really hard. However, I have put it down to a bad day.

Bench is exactly the same as is the squat. Actually, I only got 315x2 on the bech and it felt quite hard.

I am not "feeling" the AAS at all. No Dbol pumps or great feeling of well being. I sort of notice the tren in the past couple of days as my growth has become a bit leaner but no strength increase. Thus, I only really notice it visually but not in the physical sense. No water retention to speak of. No marked increase in aggression (I am a pairly laid back guy anyway though) While I did have a little more 'drive' during my bench workout, I had zero drive during my deadlift session.

I suspect two things.
One: I went too light on the TA. In hindsight I should have gone 75 per day (150 eod). I will do so next cycle.
Two: the Dbol is eiter fake or crappy.They are generics. The brand is Gamma pharmaceuticals. I have never heard of them. No results came up on T-nation or google. The only thing I found out is that they operate out of Zambia, but they have no website of their own.
To be honest, I was expecting a quick kick start from the Dbol and some good pumps but both are absent. Next time I will go for a better known brand - I can get my hands on Anabol so I will try that.

This leads me to believe that my gains in weigth are primarily due to my dramatic upping of calories and the low dose of Tren. From a size perspective the gains have been good but I am disspaointed thus far with the strength gains.

In the past 3 days I have also noticed the shut down from the tren. I guess I have a case of Tren dick. While I would LOVE to have sex I feel it would be a lot more difficult to keep it up. Thank god I will be able to bounce back really quick during PCT (becoz of no HPTA shut down).

I am hoping that next week the strength gains will appear. My weigth is still steadily increasing and I will try my best to keep this going. It is going up at a rate of around 1.5-2Ibs per day at this point and is farily consistent.

ANyways, I am not goping to be training for the next couple of days so I will have some good recuperation time and time to eat too.

I will update you soon on the progress.



My next cycle is going to be very similiar to this, keep up the good posts bro.


12 lbs in 6 days.....i'd say your d-bol is real, and is effective. some amount of that weight is definately water. be patient. good luck.


One more thing also.

Yesterday I noticed I had a few more zits on my back and shoulders than I normally would have. Possibly a sign of the Tren beginning to hit home??

I have never been prone to Acne thank god so its not a problem but it just gave me something to think about.

I'm hoping that over the next 9 days the tren will really start to kick in (from what I undestand, many people do not begin to notice it until day 5 or 6) and so I will lean out and more importantly get some strength gains.


Yeh, the weight gain is great like I said, but it's the total lack of strength gain (even weaker than usual actually)and the absence of any "feeling" that makes me suspicious of the Dbols legitimacy. From what I understand, many people really "feel" Dbol, in the form of good mood and especially pumps. There has been nothing resembling either with me - so I suspect the gains are as a result of the low dose tren and heavy upping of calories.

Ah well, possibly it is real and I'm overanalysing. Next week though I think will be interesting to see what kind of progress I have made in my lifts.
In fairness, I have never done juice before so I may just be ignorant in this regard and like you said, I may just need to be a little patient - it may be the case that one week is simply too quick to expect any kind of strength gains to appear but we shall see.

I'll keep you all updated.

Thanks guys,


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Wow!! YOur strength is up already... Just 24 hours. Man, thats great. Your only on half the Dbol dose that I'm on too.

Again, this makes me suspicious of whether my Dbol is real. Do you think that its the dbol that caused your strength to go up?? I cant imagine tren would act that quickly.....


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The Tren is Generic labs and has a hologram on it. Looks quite legit and I have heard good things about GL tren.

I do trust my source to never INTENTIONALLY rip me off (I know him quite well), but i think the stuff may just be rubbish. I have never heard of the brand, no results came up on the net for that type of Dbol and there is no info on the company that makes them other than they operate from Zambia. They do however come in a blister pack which had originally led me to believe they were legit but given the absence of strength gain now I'm not so sure.

I live in europe so I am unsure whether the Dbol is fake or not since it is so bloody cheap over here (and common as hell) that I couldnt see the point in anybody importing fakes.

Next cycle though I will try a different brand. Then at least I can make comparisons.



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fuck i'm jealous of you guys. :frowning:


Why are you jealous??? Id rather live in North America then Europe and day, or even Asia before Europe for that matter. The only decent part of Europe IMHO is the UK other then that every European I have ever met is a clown.


SO, its day 8 of the cycle.

I finally think I'm beginning to see some strength gains. I was working shoulders and lats (vertical pulling) today.

i started with a light bench. Just wanted to get some blood flowing to my chest for the purposes of active recovery so I did a few very light sets which felt difficult - no intention of doing anything hard though. Just got the blood flowing and stretched out the chest a little.

Moved on to seated dumbell shoulder press and I felt GREAT!
I usually train shoulders after heavy bench so the fact that I didnt do a heavy bench today may have something to do with the added strength but I defenitley felt much better today.
Got 8 reps with two 95Ib dumbells. To be honest, I could have gone for nine or 10 reps and probably gotten them.
I just really had a great shoulder session today. Very pleased indeed since shoulders are usually my weakest point.

Next week I will try 105Ib dumbells and see how that goes.

As for the chin ups, I was using less weight than ususal here but I think that is due to the fact that I am carrying an extra 13 pounds, thus making any bodyweight exercise more difficult.
I did feel good though. Got a fairly good pump in my lats and my joints were not killing me afterwards as they sometines would be with vertical pulling movements.

As for gains in bodyweight, it seems to have tapered out and is rising much more slowly now. I did notice in the gym today I looked a bit bigger - but that may just be because the guy beside me was real skinny :slight_smile:

ANyways, Later guys,
I'll keep updatin


Day 10 of the cycle

Squat day was yesterday.
I am defenitley beginning to see that strength gains that I was looking forward to.
Put 375 on the bar and did it for a decent 5 reps, no belt or anything.
Very happy with this. Around 25Ibs over what I was lifing last week.
Mind you, my technique was a little crappy, but I think that had more to do with the track bottoms I was wearing, which werent loose enough to allow me to hit full depth.
I could have defenitley gotten proper technique though if I was wearing the proper attire.

Really felt good and very happy with the workout. And today, I have absolutley No soreness in my legs wich is very strange since I was lifinng more than usual and I would almost always be sore the day after squatting.

Weight gain is still going up but only very slowly. Maybe half a pound a day. I can see my delts better now. They are a lot more visible, which I'm pleased with since they are one of my weaker points.



only U.K.

why is that? care to elaborate?

otherwise it's kinda harsh.....



Dmachine is hating on Europe. That's a pretty broad generalization bro. Quite a few diverse countries crammed in around there. Kind of harsh like Lithuanian said. Care to tell us how you really feel? lol Back some of that up!

Otherwise you sound pretty ignorant.

Sorry to hijack your thread Celtic-Devil.


whoa what's wrong with you? did i tap into some ultra-nationalistic/xenophobic viewpoints of yours? i was simply commenting on europe's lax regulations regarding AAS. and i'm of the opinion that it should be legalized for those over, say, 21 years old.