I have a question about this. First, yes I have the book.
Is there something in this program to make it any different than usual linear periodization? Not dissing the program, just wondering if the usual problems of linear periodization don’t apply in this one.
[quote]Daniel-San wrote:
I have a question about this. First, yes I have the book.
Is there something in this program to make it any different than usual linear periodization? Not dissing the program, just wondering if the usual problems of linear periodization don’t apply in this one.[/quote]
What are the usual problems?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Daniel-San wrote:
I have a question about this. First, yes I have the book.
Is there something in this program to make it any different than usual linear periodization? Not dissing the program, just wondering if the usual problems of linear periodization don’t apply in this one.[/quote]
What are the usual problems?[/quote]
Detraining of previously trained characteristics as you progress towards the competition, CNS fatigue from training with >90% loads on the same excersizes for the last few weeks, and working from hypothetical maxes. I.E. you get weak during the volume / hypertrophy phase, small during the strength / power phase, and if you overestimate your strength at the start you’ll run yourself into the ground at the end.
[quote]Broncoandy wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Daniel-San wrote:
I have a question about this. First, yes I have the book.
Is there something in this program to make it any different than usual linear periodization? Not dissing the program, just wondering if the usual problems of linear periodization don’t apply in this one.[/quote]
What are the usual problems?[/quote]
Detraining of previously trained characteristics as you progress towards the competition, CNS fatigue from training with >90% loads on the same excersizes for the last few weeks, and working from hypothetical maxes. I.E. you get weak during the volume / hypertrophy phase, small during the strength / power phase, and if you overestimate your strength at the start you’ll run yourself into the ground at the end.[/quote]
You adjust your max based on your performance in the realization phase of each mini cycle so there should be no problem with picking the wrong %'s. As for the rest you’re always going to be moving pretty heavy weight for AMRAP at the end of each mini cycle although the % is different in each phase so in reality you’ll be moving decent weight for reps atleast once a mini cycle after the first phase where he wants you to start too light for the same reasoning as Wendler’s 531.
The main saving factor I think is the adjusting of your max based on your performances
I think I’ll give this program a go here, was hesitant to start something this long and planned out since I’m moving soon but fuck it I’ll figure it out.
How would y’all that have done this compare it to something like Westside? Pros and cons?
[quote]theuofh wrote:
In short, it is a block periodization scheme. You do 4 weeks phases of 10,8,5,3 reps on the core lifts. Each phase is broken up into acculumulation, intensification, realization. It is basic high volume/low intensity like several sets of 10 working up to one set of max reps in the last week.
So in a 10s phase, you do like 5 sets of 10 in week 1, less sets but heavier in week 2, then in week 3 you work up to a set of max reps. The last week is a deload. If you do over 10 in your realization week, which you should because you start light, you use your reps over goal to calculate a new max used to adjust the loads for the next phase.
[/quote]
In the Periodization Bible part 1 by Mr. Tate he goes into great detail about how a Western Linear periodization is shit because in the beginning one uses light ass weights and lots of reps then in the end your doing heavy stuff blah,blah,blah etc. So are we now just calling it acculumulation, intensification, realization ‘phases’ to sell the same ol shit in a new flavor? Can / would someone explain the difference?
Is it that in a regular linear progression the total time span may be say, 16 weeks whereas this one is a waving type deal, like west-side ‘waves’, but where one would have 4 mini waves in the same 16 week period?
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
[quote]theuofh wrote:
In short, it is a block periodization scheme. You do 4 weeks phases of 10,8,5,3 reps on the core lifts. Each phase is broken up into acculumulation, intensification, realization. It is basic high volume/low intensity like several sets of 10 working up to one set of max reps in the last week.
So in a 10s phase, you do like 5 sets of 10 in week 1, less sets but heavier in week 2, then in week 3 you work up to a set of max reps. The last week is a deload. If you do over 10 in your realization week, which you should because you start light, you use your reps over goal to calculate a new max used to adjust the loads for the next phase.
[/quote]
In the Periodization Bible part 1 by Mr. Tate he goes into great detail about how a Western Linear periodization is shit because in the beginning one uses light ass weights and lots of reps then in the end your doing heavy stuff blah,blah,blah etc. So are we now just calling it acculumulation, intensification, realization ‘phases’ to sell the same ol shit in a new flavor? Can / would someone explain the difference?
Is it that in a regular linear progression the total time span may be say, 16 weeks whereas this one is a waving type deal, like west-side ‘waves’, but where one would have 4 mini waves in the same 16 week period? [/quote]
This, you asked better than I could.
However, I don’t think it has anything to do with waving, as the rep ranges remain the same for the full cycle, so although you build up the intensity, it’s still in the 10 rep range, and then 8 in the next cycle, etc. So I really can’t see the difference from linear periodization. I can say however, that it looks like a pretty good way to do it, if you’re interested in linear p.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
In the Periodization Bible part 1 by Mr. Tate he goes into great detail about how a Western Linear periodization is shit because in the beginning one uses light ass weights and lots of reps then in the end your doing heavy stuff blah,blah,blah etc. So are we now just calling it acculumulation, intensification, realization ‘phases’ to sell the same ol shit in a new flavor? Can / would someone explain the difference?
Is it that in a regular linear progression the total time span may be say, 16 weeks whereas this one is a waving type deal, like west-side ‘waves’, but where one would have 4 mini waves in the same 16 week period? [/quote]
I’m not an expert on this, but from my current understanding of “wave loading”, is you start with a load and do 10 sets of 2, then the next week you go a little heavier and do less sets of 2, then week 3 do even more weight and less sets. Then deload, go back to week 1 loads and add a little weight and do it over again. In the end, you are still progressing linearly every wave.
ME days is Bulgarian approach, where you work up to a heavy max, but you change bars or movements every time, so you don’t know where your true max is. From reading some of Louie’s stuff, his prime indicators of what somebody will lift in a meet is based on their total volume in their DE workouts, for example for a person to squat a 1000 at a meet, then need to do 500 with so much band tension for 10 sets of 2 with 1 minute breaks on DE day. That is a made up example, but the point is there, and Louie talks about it one of the more recent issues of power magazine and you can probably find an article about it on his webpage.
Westside gets a whole lot of attention, but a lot of guys still train with a linear periodization approach, where they figure out what a logical next total is, then block it off, and linearly increase the loads during their heavier phases until they are up to 90-95% of what they expect to lift in a meet. Phase 1 may just be getting back into shape after some time off, before the real training begins. I don’t know who invented the approach, but accumulation, intensification, and realization are common terms in the literature and Chad didn’t make them up.
For a world level competitive lifter, the training required to perform at a peak level, if kept up indefinitely, might be very well enough to kill them, injury them, etc… So, taking some time off after a meet to heal and recover, even if you are detraining may be necessary, to go through another rough training cycle to get back up to and past peak level.
I do believe, that if an individual wants to get strong, they need to lift over 90% regularly and that is one thing I don’t like about Chad’s program. I don’t think it will necessarily make anyone weaker, but I’m not sure if it is the best way to develop 1rm strength in the general, i.e. more average lifting population.
I think this program would be good for people trying to gain some weight or hypertrophy, general athletes and lifters, who are not necessarily ready to compete at a high-level in powerlifting.
Taking 3 weeks to work up to a max set of 10 won’t make you weaker in the long run, but an advanced lifter most likely won’t be doing it 2-3 weeks before a meet when he is trying to peak for a 1rm lift, but chances are it will make less accomplished lifters stronger.
In the end, it just comes back to does the program you are on allow you to make incremental progess, sets/reps/load, and allow you to continue that for as long as possible without causing injury or burnout. I think the adaptive loads in this program are good for that and the higher rep phases are good for general conditioning, hypertrophy, and time off from heavy CNS taxing lifting.
^^thank you sir, great answer!!^^
Looks like a good program. Has a lot in common with 5/3/1, which is also nice. The adjustments between waves will fit better for individuals than the standard increments of 5/3/1 because they are directly related to what you did.
The downside of this is that the progress is based only on the results in the last week of a wave. Some lifts might suffer in calculated progress because you don’t get much reps over the wave’s standard.
Did some calculations and I think the 10S wave is very intensive. Over 10 reps squats and deadlifts = insane.
If you start light enough, 5/3/1 basically has an accumulation,intensification and a realization phase it’s just drawn out longer.
I am starting the 8s phase right now, but we use the juggernaut lift as an accessory. So while we are in the 10/8/5 phases we still do a heavy lift first. So heavy squat(1-3 rep,gear,chain,bands,whatever) then jugg Dl then other acc work. It has been working pretty good for me.
Just started this today. I figure the only way to see if it’ll do anything for me is to actually try it. Here goes nothing. Let’s see where I’m at in 3 months. (probably going to skip the deload weeks, unless I feel like I need one)
[quote]Racer377 wrote:
Just started this today. I figure the only way to see if it’ll do anything for me is to actually try it. Here goes nothing. Let’s see where I’m at in 3 months. (probably going to skip the deload weeks, unless I feel like I need one)
[/quote]
It’s probably not a good idea to start a new program and immediately start tweaking it because you know better than it’s author.
[quote]frankjl wrote:
[quote]Racer377 wrote:
Just started this today. I figure the only way to see if it’ll do anything for me is to actually try it. Here goes nothing. Let’s see where I’m at in 3 months. (probably going to skip the deload weeks, unless I feel like I need one)
[/quote]
It’s probably not a good idea to start a new program and immediately start tweaking it because you know better than it’s author.[/quote]
90% of the stuff I do is probably not a good idea.
I started this last week. How many people are following the program as written including the warmup? 200 contacts on jump rope, 50 jumping jacks and all the other stuff really takes it outta me before I even get to teh main lift, but I’m hoping I adapt to it
For those of you with the program, what equipment do you need? Currently I just train in my basement and planning on joining a gym sometime soon but for now I just have a barbell, plates, pullup bar, dip bar and a sled. I know that medicine ball throws are mentioned in the add but what else is used?
[quote]Johnny T Frisk wrote:
For those of you with the program, what equipment do you need? Currently I just train in my basement and planning on joining a gym sometime soon but for now I just have a barbell, plates, pullup bar, dip bar and a sled. I know that medicine ball throws are mentioned in the add but what else is used?[/quote]
A barbell, plates and a squat rack are all you really need. The medicine ball work is optional. I do it, although judging from the juggernaut logs on here, I’m in the minority. I’ve heard that walmart sells em, or there’s directions to make your own here (and check out rosstraining.com too, several other links there): http://www.mikesgym.org/articles/uploads/EbookMedBall1THESLAMMER.pdf
Bumpers would be REALLY nice to have for the O-lifts work, although again, this is optional and it seems many dont add this in.
Another optional component is the jumps. I enjoy these, and plyo boxes would be really nice to have.
He does list SSB box squats as a good supplement to regular squats, but again, nice-to-have, not need-to-have.
A weight vest would add a whole new permutation to the jumps, as well as to lots of the accessory exercises - GHRs, pullups, etc.
That’s all I can really think of off the top of my head.
Maybe its me, and i’m no strength monster but i get turned off from planning workouts 12 weeks in advanced.