Hey everyone. I plan on starting this after I do a BJJ tourny at the end of the month, along with a small change. And was just curious about everyone on here’s experiences and personal progress with it?
hmm, 200+ views and no responses? Anyone? lol
[quote]gfreak wrote:
Hey everyone. I plan on starting this after I do a BJJ tourny at the end of the month, along with a small change. And was just curious about everyone on here’s experiences and personal progress with it?
[/quote]
Plenty of people have had fantastic results I know
Recently finished a Juggernaut cycle for my bench. Had no progress whatsoever - actually finished a little weaker than I started. I don’t think that the 10s and 8s help - I prefer the lower reps of 5/3/1.
Having said that, I’m at a brutal sticking point on my bench and not much is helping at all.
I ran Juggernaut all the way through and had shit results. It takes too long to go heavy. Rep maxes dont mean shit because they dont take into account the CNS factor of having heavy weight in your hands/on your back. I now run something kind of similar where I rotate in heavy singles at varying intensities every session but then do the Juggernaut rep scheme in 3 or 4 week waves. I find the heavy singles plus some basic plyometrics such as box jumps, kb, swings, db snatches, etc provide the CNS stimulation I need to make progress in my 1RM. Hope this helps!
@ the swede,
I’ve ran 5/3/1 and Honestly just didn’t like it…didn’t make the progress that I would’ve liked to have made. And i’m planning on using the 10’s and 8’s to put on a bit of muscle, so that actually does play in to what i’m planning hah.
[quote]xneverbackdown wrote:
I ran Juggernaut all the way through and had shit results. It takes too long to go heavy. Rep maxes dont mean shit because they dont take into account the CNS factor of having heavy weight in your hands/on your back. I now run something kind of similar where I rotate in heavy singles at varying intensities every session but then do the Juggernaut rep scheme in 3 or 4 week waves. I find the heavy singles plus some basic plyometrics such as box jumps, kb, swings, db snatches, etc provide the CNS stimulation I need to make progress in my 1RM. Hope this helps![/quote]
Interesting, thanks for the input. I"ve done the heavy singles + back down sets before, and I did see progress with them. But I ended up stalling after a couple months of doing that. (I think it was 3 months and some change)
What would you say about during the de-load weeks, instead of following the deload. Just work up to a single at 90% of your max? and then doing your assistance work afterwards. I’m pretty well conditioned, and can recover well from most things (I’m training 13-15 hours a week at the moment with no issues)
I don’t know if you did a search for past posts, but this is what I posted when I finished the program (~2 years ago now)
Juggernaut experience (short version)
Lifts from late March:
Bench 335x1
Squat 575x1
Press 195x5
Deadlift 485x4
Last week of TJM:
Bench 320x5
Squat 475x8
Press 195x9
Deadlift 470x0
My thoughts a bit more in-depth.
Bench - The 335 at the beginning was easy, and that was after not training bench for 3-4 months. My all-time bench PR is 365, so there was bound to be some initial gains. That said, right around the time I benched 365, I also did 315x6, and I was thisclose to locking out my sixth rep on the 320. So my rep strength is just about at an all-time strongest, and when I test 1RM a week or two later, I got 370.
Squat - 575 was done at the end of two months of work w the Safety Squat Bar. I may?ve been good for 585. All-time best two years ago was, I think, 585x2. Stood up w 600 for a double, but the video looked high. So I was happy w my starting strength, not sure how I feel about 475x8. It’s technically a PR (never had an 8RM before) and probably close to as strong as I’ve ever been, but I’m not sure. I’ve done 400x20 and 525x4, but don’t have rep records any closer to 8 reps. What I’m mostly annoyed about is that reps don’t necessarily carry over to 1RM for me, so I dunno if I’m stronger or what.
Press - this is the lift I’m happiest about. It’s a clear progression, same amount of weight, more reps. I’ve made great progress in this lift over the last year or so, and hope to continue that.
Deadlift - Pretty certain I twisted something in my back in the week leading up to this. Nothing hurt, but that is an all-time WTF moment for me. I’m still not happy w the DL results on TJM though, as the end of the previous month I’d done 445x7. Nothing special, as my 485x4 in March was done AFTER squatting and leaving 1-2 reps in the tank. So I’m pissed, the lift I needed the most improvement on, pffffft. Furthermore, I don’t think getting hurt was coincidence: I think the amount of lower body volume left me susceptible to injury.
Thoughts on the Juggernaut method in general:
Overall, I would say that TJM works, but there are other programs I’d recommend first. I understand that Chad is part-owner of a sports performance gym, so I can see why he does what he does. With athletes, 1RM strength is not as important as simply getting them lifting, and TJM is a simple program to follow. I do think it’s better suited to newer lifters with a younger training age.
If I were going to do this program again, I would change my PREP for the program (since I hate it when people change training programs. Then it’s not the coach/lifter’s program - it’s your own.) The changes I would make would be to focus on conditioning for 3 weeks or so prior to the start. Lots of sled dragging, high rep accessory stuff, and I would probably start 1 week w 2x10 on the main lifts, next week 3x10, then 4x10 and then start week 1 of the 10’s wave w the 5x10. Also, I might test my 3-5RM just to compare apples to apples. That’s if you’re interested in evaluating the program, if you have certain goals that you wish to improve on, by all means, test the goals.
That said, there’s too much emphasis on volume, and I’m now going to have to peak my lifts for a 1RM test, since I never actually touched heavy weight for most of the cycle. I would consider using the program again for upper body lifts, but not for lower body. There is a tremendous difference between pulling in a fatigued state, as after 4x10 or 6x3, and knowing how to strain w a heavy single.
I believe that the proof of this is in the pudding, as Wendler actually uses 5/3/1, whereas Chad has Josh Bryant program his Bench and DL training for him
Good things about TJM/Mitigating factors:
To begin with, I’m much happier with TJM than I was at this time last month. At the end of my 5’s Wave I did
Bench 295x8
Squat 445x8
Press 185x8
DL 445x7
So whatever the difference between the 5’s and the 3’s Wave, there may be some delayed supercompensation or something happening there. Or it could be due to the 5-8 lbs I gained in the last month and/or my use of stimulants prior to each of my last 4 sessions (not something I normally use)
I should also say that I, and other people, noticed increased size/muscularity on me at the end of the 10’s Wave or early to middle of the 8’s Wave. An added bonus, although not surprising with the volume.
I really like JM but like others have said it’s hard to stay focused on the high rep cycles. I don’t think the program did much for my 1 rep maxes but I think overall work capacity definitely improved. I do BJJ too and this program seemed to fit in well.
I’m rocking the cube method right now and that has plenty of low rep work.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
I don’t know if you did a search for past posts, but this is what I posted when I finished the program (~2 years ago now)
Juggernaut experience (short version)
Lifts from late March:
Bench 335x1
Squat 575x1
Press 195x5
Deadlift 485x4
Last week of TJM:
Bench 320x5
Squat 475x8
Press 195x9
Deadlift 470x0
My thoughts a bit more in-depth.
Bench - The 335 at the beginning was easy, and that was after not training bench for 3-4 months. My all-time bench PR is 365, so there was bound to be some initial gains. That said, right around the time I benched 365, I also did 315x6, and I was thisclose to locking out my sixth rep on the 320. So my rep strength is just about at an all-time strongest, and when I test 1RM a week or two later, I got 370.
Squat - 575 was done at the end of two months of work w the Safety Squat Bar. I may?ve been good for 585. All-time best two years ago was, I think, 585x2. Stood up w 600 for a double, but the video looked high. So I was happy w my starting strength, not sure how I feel about 475x8. It’s technically a PR (never had an 8RM before) and probably close to as strong as I’ve ever been, but I’m not sure. I’ve done 400x20 and 525x4, but don’t have rep records any closer to 8 reps. What I’m mostly annoyed about is that reps don’t necessarily carry over to 1RM for me, so I dunno if I’m stronger or what.
Press - this is the lift I’m happiest about. It’s a clear progression, same amount of weight, more reps. I’ve made great progress in this lift over the last year or so, and hope to continue that.
Deadlift - Pretty certain I twisted something in my back in the week leading up to this. Nothing hurt, but that is an all-time WTF moment for me. I’m still not happy w the DL results on TJM though, as the end of the previous month I’d done 445x7. Nothing special, as my 485x4 in March was done AFTER squatting and leaving 1-2 reps in the tank. So I’m pissed, the lift I needed the most improvement on, pffffft. Furthermore, I don’t think getting hurt was coincidence: I think the amount of lower body volume left me susceptible to injury.
Thoughts on the Juggernaut method in general:
Overall, I would say that TJM works, but there are other programs I’d recommend first. I understand that Chad is part-owner of a sports performance gym, so I can see why he does what he does. With athletes, 1RM strength is not as important as simply getting them lifting, and TJM is a simple program to follow. I do think it’s better suited to newer lifters with a younger training age.
If I were going to do this program again, I would change my PREP for the program (since I hate it when people change training programs. Then it’s not the coach/lifter’s program - it’s your own.) The changes I would make would be to focus on conditioning for 3 weeks or so prior to the start. Lots of sled dragging, high rep accessory stuff, and I would probably start 1 week w 2x10 on the main lifts, next week 3x10, then 4x10 and then start week 1 of the 10’s wave w the 5x10. Also, I might test my 3-5RM just to compare apples to apples. That’s if you’re interested in evaluating the program, if you have certain goals that you wish to improve on, by all means, test the goals.
That said, there’s too much emphasis on volume, and I’m now going to have to peak my lifts for a 1RM test, since I never actually touched heavy weight for most of the cycle. I would consider using the program again for upper body lifts, but not for lower body. There is a tremendous difference between pulling in a fatigued state, as after 4x10 or 6x3, and knowing how to strain w a heavy single.
I believe that the proof of this is in the pudding, as Wendler actually uses 5/3/1, whereas Chad has Josh Bryant program his Bench and DL training for him
Good things about TJM/Mitigating factors:
To begin with, I’m much happier with TJM than I was at this time last month. At the end of my 5’s Wave I did
Bench 295x8
Squat 445x8
Press 185x8
DL 445x7
So whatever the difference between the 5’s and the 3’s Wave, there may be some delayed supercompensation or something happening there. Or it could be due to the 5-8 lbs I gained in the last month and/or my use of stimulants prior to each of my last 4 sessions (not something I normally use)
I should also say that I, and other people, noticed increased size/muscularity on me at the end of the 10’s Wave or early to middle of the 8’s Wave. An added bonus, although not surprising with the volume.[/quote]
Yea, I did read that post before. I appreciate you putting it here though! I am an “athlete” and so I definitely do care LESS about 1rm than a competitive powerlifter would. But I’m still trying to increase my maxes haha (although Rep maxes to me are a legitimate way to judge increases in strength). Just curious, what other programs would you recommend before TJM? Especially for someone wanting to put on a little bit of muscle.
Also, just curious what would you say a “younger training age” would be? I’ve been lifting for about a year and 8 months now.
Thanks for any input man!
@JRT6, Ya know. I never did look into the cube method. I might have to check that out haha. Thanks!
[quote]gfreak wrote:
Yea, I did read that post before. I appreciate you putting it here though! I am an “athlete” and so I definitely do care LESS about 1rm than a competitive powerlifter would. But I’m still trying to increase my maxes haha (although Rep maxes to me are a legitimate way to judge increases in strength). Just curious, what other programs would you recommend before TJM? Especially for someone wanting to put on a little bit of muscle.
Also, just curious what would you say a “younger training age” would be? I’ve been lifting for about a year and 8 months now.
Thanks for any input man!
@JRT6, Ya know. I never did look into the cube method. I might have to check that out haha. Thanks!
[/quote]
If you’re a competitive athlete, I strongly recommend that you look into the Tier Training System, by Joe Kenn, former head strength coach at ASU and I believe Boise State. You used to be able to buy the book on Elite FTS, if it’s not still there it should be on Amazon or something. I used that in the past and to me the beauty of it was I never felt sore, so I was always ready for activities outside the gym. I will caution you that it’s more a template than a true “program,” so if you’re just looking for a cookie-cutter program that’s “good enough,” Juggernaut may be appropriate for you. But I prefer working with a template where you can have some input into what’s being emphasized.
I’ve never really put a number to what constitutes a young training age, but if I had to pull something out of thin air, I’d say … 1 - 3 years? It’s probably more a judgment call based on current strength levels, current pace of gains and what methods/programs you’ve used.
Hope that helps.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
[quote]gfreak wrote:
Yea, I did read that post before. I appreciate you putting it here though! I am an “athlete” and so I definitely do care LESS about 1rm than a competitive powerlifter would. But I’m still trying to increase my maxes haha (although Rep maxes to me are a legitimate way to judge increases in strength). Just curious, what other programs would you recommend before TJM? Especially for someone wanting to put on a little bit of muscle.
Also, just curious what would you say a “younger training age” would be? I’ve been lifting for about a year and 8 months now.
Thanks for any input man!
@JRT6, Ya know. I never did look into the cube method. I might have to check that out haha. Thanks!
[/quote]
If you’re a competitive athlete, I strongly recommend that you look into the Tier Training System, by Joe Kenn, former head strength coach at ASU and I believe Boise State. You used to be able to buy the book on Elite FTS, if it’s not still there it should be on Amazon or something. I used that in the past and to me the beauty of it was I never felt sore, so I was always ready for activities outside the gym. I will caution you that it’s more a template than a true “program,” so if you’re just looking for a cookie-cutter program that’s “good enough,” Juggernaut may be appropriate for you. But I prefer working with a template where you can have some input into what’s being emphasized.
I’ve never really put a number to what constitutes a young training age, but if I had to pull something out of thin air, I’d say … 1 - 3 years? It’s probably more a judgment call based on current strength levels, current pace of gains and what methods/programs you’ve used.
Hope that helps.[/quote]
Gotcha, yea thanks a ton for all your input man. I really appreciate it. I’ll definately look into the tier system. I finish my “cut” in 2 weeks, and that’s when I’ll decide what to do. So thanks a bunch for the recomendations man!
ANd then yea, if that’s a “young” training age i’m right in the middle of it for weights haha. I’ve been training BJJ for about 3.5 years now, and started weight lifting in July of 2011