T Nation

JPT365’s TRT Log


Frustrating. I think you have to flat out ask why they want you to do this, and the rationale will have to make sense. Obviously, these TRT clinics are in business to make money, as others have pointed out here, and that is fine. However, bottom line, actually the only line, is what is best for the patient. What’s being suggested does not make sense to me, but they may have good reasons for their recommendations (aside from profit) that I do not know about.


I asked them this just this morning. Their rationale was that I have low shbg and thus I need HCG to boost it (I didn’t know HCG did this) which will help with the aromatization issue. The thing is, they’ve been pushing HCG from the very beginning. I told them I didn’t need to be fertile, had sperm frozen and a baby on the way, so at the time they let it go. However, every subsequent conversation has been about me taking HCG and anastrozole.

Almost forgot to mention, they saw that my free T had risen with just test cyp. They had mentioned just a few weeks ago that my free T would not rise without the HCG helping with endogenous test production. When they saw my results they said “it’s rare that free T would rise without HCG.” I don’t think this is true from what I’ve seen on this forum and read about in various other places.

I hear you, and it’s where my hesistation comes in. I don’t want to come off like a know-it-all because I hang out on a TRT forum. At the same time I’ve read the studies too and I don’t like to be in the dark about my own treatment. Their recommendations aren’t making sense to me either.


This makes me feel better about my criticism.

This is a shock actually.


This statement is troubling to say the least, they are either lying or mistaken and in either case that would be enough to force me to look elsewhere for my treatment. It sounds like they are more interested in profit, you stated you’re not interested in fertility and still they push it on you anyway.

Defy Medical wouldn’t even recommend HCG if fertility wasn’t a concern.


When were you put on their payroll?


That was my experience, I told them fertility wasn’t a concern and was told by Dr. Saya HCG then wasn’t recommended.


Let me be clear when I say that the individual who made this statement was not one of the doctors but rather, I believe, a nurse. I don’t want to disparage their practice as a whole since I have been able to apply some of their suggestions with success.


Just tell them flat out no. You don’t want to spend money on it.

I don’t know what to tell you about dosing except that you need to get back to where you were feeling good. However that happens I’d do it. I know what it feels like to feel these symptoms. I’ve been going through them.


I didn’t speak to Dr. Saya about HCG, but another person. I also told him that my fertility wasn’t a concern but he said that HCG has other benefits besides fertility or cosmetics (full looking balls). I didn’t ask what the other benefits were at the time.

I actually regret having not spoken with Dr. Saya yet. He does seem to have a good rep but his appointments are usually really far out.


HCG does mimic LH and backfills the pathways, but saying Free T won’t increase without it is not correct. Sure HCG can increase testosterone and estrogen inside the testicles, but that’s what TRT is for. HCG can help with libido and mood in some men.

Dr Saya is the medical director, so it stands to reason he is the best choice.


Well it doesn’t makes sense to add HCG if the goals to increase T.

Here’s a typical case of what happens when you deal with sales. They jsut want to make that extra 600 bucks a year or whatever there profit is.


Wow! That is just out not true. It’s well known that exogenous testosterone will decrease SHBG and therefore increase free testosterone. That is very disturbing.


People trying to make a case to spend more money on their services. Shits comical. Lolll


Don’t regret it. You should expect that a trt Dr specialist has his staff well trained. If everyone had to speak with him personally to get the correct info…What does that say about the practice?

Ask to speak with him personally for FREE because you have been given incorrect info and you are lost. Complain and that you must speak with saya. He is in charge of the office.


This is a problem with the telemedicine route. You are essentially speaking with a stranger, someone you have not personally met, over the phone. I’d buy a plane ticket and meet the doctor face to face.


I wish it was that easy to get on a plane to meet these people, but at the time I was seeking help I felt practically disabled. To be honest, I’m starting to feel that way again. I feel like a burden on my wife, I was talking to her about it tonight and she started crying, telling me not to give up.

I just don’t know where to go from here. Is high E2 supposed to make you feel this bad or do I have more severe problems underlying it all? I know these questions are impossible to answer on a forum but can anyone point me in a direction to take? I can barely go to work, barely helping around the house, etc. Near constant fatigue and just generally feeling unwell. I’ve tried dosage manipulation and I don’t feel any relief, granted it’s only been two doses.


Don’t give up. Ask around for a referral to someone local and if that does not work, consider a trip to one of the more well known TRT doctors.


Yes high e2 is hell. I jsut went through days of it a couple times. Couldn’t operate at all. I noticed my sensitivify during sex had dissapeared. I was still having middle of the night wood and in the am. Hcg did it the first time. I stopped and 3 days later felt better, because It adds more e2 that cannot be controlled if using ai. I wasn’t.

Do you have allot of fat on the body? If you can not control these issues with supplements or microdosing you should go on ai for a short period and lose the fat with a goal of getting off… that’s the last final option if nothing else seems to work. I’m about to sign with a doc who does the scrotal cream where you apply to the testes. I hear it works really well and you can control e2 better somehow.

I suggest you Go spend money at discounted labs and go get a e2 sensitive test tomorrow. It’s 50$. Look up supplements that help with e2. Take them in moderation. Take some zink and maybe try some dim for a few days. Once you feel better cut the dosage by half or every other day until you can get some testing done and some real answers.

These supplements work @NH_Watts had crashed his e2 with dim. He can fill you in. Unless i got the wrong guy.

I would do this If it’s that bad… when you get e2 test back Monday or Tuesday you’ll know if that’s the issue.

You need to optimize your liver so take supplements for it. That’s what I heard someone say here and that makes allot of sense.

Drink a good amount of water to.

It’s hard bro I know … it just creeps up on ya.


Ya go to tot revolution YouTube page and use any of those docs. One is in Ohio and other is in Chattanooga. Not sure if that’s close to ya. Anabolic doc is in Florida and up on the east coast somewhere. They all charge a upfront fee but it’s woeth it. Peace of mind and they will work in your issue not just suggest something and wait 90 days.


Still having night and AM wood as well. In between feeling depressed and sorry for myself my libido presents as sky high and my rebound time after ejaculation is insanely short.

I don’t have a lot of fat, I’m around 14% at most. I could go down to 10% or lower as I have in the past, but I usually feel like shit walking around at lower body fat percentages for extended periods. Man, I’m seriously about to take the AI, at least for a short duration. I do hear everyone here about their terrible consequences but this experience has me on my knees practically. It’s almost as bad as when I withdrew entirely from TRT.

Yup, I was going to get E2 retested in a few days to see if the dosage reduction even put a dent in it. I’m taking DIM into consideration along with the AI. I don’t want to take them both and would like to choose DIM over the AI but I’ve heard that DIM is hit or miss. I do need to pull the trigger on one of them soon though. The thought of feeling worse than I already do scares me to be honest. Any advice of zinc dosage?

I think I have some milk thistle lying around. Would that do for liver support? I’m staying very hydrated.