T Nation

JPT365’s TRT Log


#141

Right, but is this a massive fluctuation if it is a fluctuation. I don’t know where to go from here since my current E2 is affecting my life. Will E2 continue to rise? Should levels still be fluctuating this wildly 8 weeks in?


#142

Woah… This makes zero sense.

This is the exact reason you should not do a protocol based on shbg…


#143

If you are on the same protocol, e2 should reach a Stable level. I gather this will take AT LEAST 6 weeks.

If e2 keeps rising with same protocol after a couple of months. That’s would indicate something really wrong. Think about. Makes no sense.


#144

Testosterone binds to SHBG and the more T that binds to SHBG, the lower Free T will be. Take a high SHBG guy for example, his Free T will be lower and Total T higher.

A low SHBG guy is asking for trouble injecting large infrequent doses, he will have very high Free T and Free E2 and high estrogen.


#145

I understand this. But my point is more broad. Shbg FLUCTUATES. And basing a protocol on this is not accurate imo.

There are guys who inject 1x a week or 2x a week with low or higher shbg and do fine.


#146

This is why I’m concerned. At one month on this protocol I was at 25 for E2. At 2 months I’m now 45. The question as to whether it will continue to rise is a mystery for now but, in this moment, I don’t know where to go because I’m having symptoms.


#147

Did you draw blood on same day during week?

Did you take anything for ai control ? Any new supplements? Etc

Are you comparing labs using same e2 assay? Different lab.?
E2 values fluctuate and can be affected by many things. Repeat just e2 then.


#148

A low SHBG guy who inject once or twice weekly and does well, these guys are outliers in my experience. There are a great many other men on another forum and they all rave about daily injections and how it’s the best thing that could have done and they wish they had done it sooner.

Have you seen the doctors talking about daily injections on youtube? All the doctors are doing it as well and some of them don’t have low SHBG, high SHBG in fact.


#149

I get your point. I just differ in my opinion.


#150

I inject daily and that is one of my best choices i made.


#151

No, last time was a Thursday, this time was Tuesday.

Nothing, I have both DIM and anastrozole but I’ve yet to take either. No new supplements at all.

Same assay, same lab.

I can ask Defy.


#152

Oh yeah. I forgot you were on ED protocol. So it would not matter much.

If u don’t pay for labs. You can get free e2 also. And do both methods. Eia and lcms


#153

Is there a point in getting them anytime soon since I just took 6mg today? In other words, did I screw myself and now have to wait 6 weeks until blood levels are reliably stable enough to test?

I’m really discouraged with this stuff and the company I signed up with wants me on an AI and HCG. I feel like no one has an answer for me.


#154

I don’t think it’s urgent.

You e2 was in the 40s. Not that high. It’s only going to go down since you injected less.

My first Endo told me he would not consider treating e2 unless it was near 60. I left him cause alot on here said I should be at 22 which was wrong. Then urologist basically said same thing as Endo but urologist treated symptoms.

This is Soo frustrating for you. It was for me.

You went with defy. It’s either your trust how they want to treat you or you leave them. Or else you will drive yourself bananas.

Call them. Sound upset. Tell them you need help and a plan now. Tell them you want no ai. You have to do this with any medical office . you will get better attention.

You have guys on cycle who don’t use an ai and we are on trt!

I know you been reading on here. You basically have to pick a protocol and stay in for 2 months and see how you feel and labs. Symptoms will occur during the 2 months or longer if you were low t for a long time but you need to get through them as you stabilize. Are you a unique case that typical stuff dont work? Maybe.

@physioLojik said he had zero guys in his practice on more than 2x a week injections. That speaks volumes.

I think a great starting dose is 50 2x a week. But for you may start lower at 40-45 2x a week.

Write down a plan.

I don’t care what anyone says defy is a mill. They churn out prescriptions keep themselves and empower pharmacy in business. Who the fuck else in this country writes a script for .1 mg or .125 ai? Who the fuck you think empower is making scream cream for…mmmm defy giving women scream cream. There’s pressure to prescribe shit.

They give dhea preg capsules custom. Do you really need it or is empower have to much stock they need to get rid of. Mmmmm…

I could be wrong. I think guys like them cause they give you what you want. And give you a higher starting testosterone. Which may not be helpful for a 40 year old who wants to feel just slightly above average. Feel very good. But no they want you free t a bit over range…

OR

defy is on the cutting edge on hormones replacement. But the AI thing makes me write what I wrote above. “heres a script for .1 ai and use it just in case…”


#155

If you just made the change in dosing today, if you went back to your original dose, you will retain that stable state within days.


#156

I do anticipate it will go down with a smaller dose. My urologist who first started me on TRT was very anti-AI. At first I hated him for it, that’s because at the time I didn’t understand it enough. He also was for lowering test dose to lower E2 without any other external factors. I’d say he knew what he was doing but when he told me to cold-turkey off TRT and ruined my life was when I never wanted to see him again.

I wasn’t particularly pleasant with them this morning but they’re like a broken record over there. “Take anastrozoke, take HCG, take anastrozole, take HCG.” The thing is they could be totally right, I’m not a medical professional and can only go by what I read in studies or on this forum. Who the hell am I to challenge a doctor? But if I don’t then I could end up in worse shape than I am now, I’ve been there before. It’s a hard position to be in.


#157

Any idea based on half-life and being on for 8 weeks how long I have before blood-levels become unstable again (i.e if I did 2-3 days at a lower dose)?


#158

One day hardly makes a big difference, couple of days at the most and you’ll be back on track. It takes longer than 8 weeks to see major improvements, you just need to leave things alone for awhile.

These levels are good minus the estrogen level, I would have just taken a micro dose AI and add small dose HCG if for fertility.

Total Test: 658 Range 229-902
Free T: 21.6 Range 4.4-16.8 HIGH
E2 Sensitive: 45 Range 0-40 HIGH
SHBG: 12.5 Range 14.55-94.64 LOW


#159

I don’t think I explained myself clearly in that last question. I meant if I were to continue holding at 6mg for 2-3 days then returned to 10mg after that would I throw myself off for a long time?


#160

I reluctantly thought about taking just 1 capsule (.125mg), but I know you and others hated the AI’s. I don’t know enough about them to feel safe taking them. It was explained to me that they were a long term commitment and that TRT would fail without them. Knowledge and experience on this forum and others seems to point to other potential solutions.

Also, if you don’t mind. What are the sides of HCG? They really want me on it, do you have the same experience at Defy?