T Nation

JPT365’s TRT Log


#101

I’ve definitely felt like a menopausal woman with all these protocol changes in the past year haha.


#102

@jpt365 @ChickenLittle
This is the best to determine if you have low or high e2. That’s where I learned about the ring test etc
https://www.peaktestosterone.com/HRT_Estradiol_Men.aspx


#103

Thanks for the resource. I haven’t noticed any difference in regards to the ring. I know E2 goes up and down during the day, but could it really be high or low if it came in at 25 in a trough on that 4 week test? (Hopefully that makes sense, I’m pretty tired)


#104

Week 5 at 10mg ED:

Well, everything was going fine until yesterday morning when I woke up feeling hardcore depressed again and was experiencing intrusive thoughts. I was so down I actually left work early. No idea what precipitated this event, but it was bad. I didn’t sleep last night and had crippling anxiety all the way through this morning. Right now I feel absolutely fine, I can only assume these are hormonal fluctuations happening for no rhyme or reason.

Anyone know if this could be due to pushing too hard, too soon in the gym? In the past week I put up 60lbs more on my bench trying to get back to where I was before shit hit the fan with my TRT withdrawal. I felt just fine lifting that heavy and actually felt really good afterward as well, but maybe I burned my CNS?

Defy consult is scheduled for tomorrow morning.


#105

Hormones are fluctuating, I’m on a new protocol and the same thing happens to me when not in a stable state.

I feel very intense on the day of my injection, calmer day after, then I inject again and it starts all over until I hit 6 weeks, then things settle down.


#106

I’ll ride the wave out as usual, thanks for responding.


#107

6 weeks on 10mg, ED shots today. I feel ok today, much better than previous days. I seem to have intermittent depression/anxiety on a day-to-day basis. This Tuesday for instance I had all-day, persistent, skin crawling levels of anxiety which disappeared the next day. I have no idea what causes these events.

Defy has advised that I may be hypothyroid. He said my symptoms of fatigue, shallow sleep, waves of depression and cloudy thoughts are signs of it. He advised that reverse t3 was high, but not out of range, on my first labs. He wanted to put me on thyroid medication, but I refused since I’m so sensitive to stimulants of any kind and he did say it may be stimulating. He told me to try 150mcg of iodine and 200mg selenium daily for now.

Here are my first thyroid labs for reference:

Reverse t3: 20.7 Range 8-25
T3 free: 3.7 Range 2.3-4.2
T4 free: 1.77 Range .89-1.76 HIGH
TSH: .536 Range .55-4.76. LOW
Thyroid Peroxidase abs: <28.0 Range <60
Thyroglobulin abs: 23.4 Range <60


#108

Thyroid problems are often intermittent, thyroid can look fine in the morning and midday be having problems that blood testing is difficult to catch.

A daily protocol provides the most consistency and if you are feeling inconsistent, it isn’t TRT causing the inconsistency.


#109

Seems the battle never ends, on to the next I guess. Hoping the iodine and selenium will have some benefit, otherwise I’ll be on thyroid meds.


#110

Week 7 on 10mg ED.

I’m still experiencing waves of depression, anxiety, lack of sleep and exercise intolerance. Last week I benched weight I’d used in my prime for multiple sets, I thought I was back. This week (Monday) I picked up those same weights and they collapsed on me, had to squirm and push them to my thighs to get them off. My nutrition, sleep and hydration was on point before that session, idk what’s causing this. Did a body weight workout instead and it was ridiculously challenging when usually bodyweight is easy for me.

It went downhill from there. Didn’t sleep that night and didn’t sleep the following two. Feel generally shitty yesterday and today. A stark contrast from Saturday and Sunday when I did multiple home improvement projects and had what felt like unlimited energy. Do I need to increase my test dose again or could this be thyroid related? What does everyone think?

Last labs I had done for reference:

Total Test: 527 Range 229-902
Free T: 16.4 Range 4.4-16.8
E2 Sensitive: 25 Range 0-40
SHBG: 13.7 Range 14.55-94.64 LOW

@charlie12 @NH_Watts @systemlord @ChickenLittle @alphagunner


#111

I would.


#112

Defy would agree with you. I guess now that I know my E2 is in a decent space I can be less paranoid about the increase. They’d like to see my free test in the low 20’s. I just don’t know what dose to increase to, 12mg ED for now? Defy is good with up to 20mg ED.


#113

Personally Id go up 50% if thats where they want you.


#114

Did you take anymore of the iodine?


#115

Your free t is great. If you think you should take more t. Only go up a little

Your outstanding issues may not be related to testosterone

@jpt365. Insulin resistance can cause low shbg. Ever check fasting insulin. Ai1c?

Great read here buddy.

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/Low_SHBG.aspx

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/Free_Testosterone_SHBG.aspx

Low shbg from peak testosterone:

  1. Obesity and Being Overweight. Low SHBG is associated with obesity. [1] The reason is probably due to a loss of insulin sensitivity as we’ll discuss below.

  2. Lower Insulin Levels. There is evidence that increasing insulin lowers SHBG. [2] Studies have found this both in vitor and in vivo as well, i.e. on human subjects and male ones at that. [3] Therefore, SHBG is often a flag or warning signal of insulin and blood sugar issues. In other words, SHBG does not cause insulin resistance but does indicate it.

NOTE: You may also want to read my link on The Causes of High SHBG.

  1. Cardiovascular Disease, Diabetes, Metabolic Syndrome and Decreased Longevity. Due to #1 and #2, mumerous studies have shown that low SHBG can actually indicate decreased longevity. For example, one study found:

“Low SHBG and IGFBP-1 were both associated with an increased prevalence of abnormal glucose tolerance and the metabolic syndrome, but only SHBG was associated with diabetes mellitus. SHBG was less influenced by body mass index than IGFBP-1. Low SHBG indicated increased cardiovascular and coronary disease mortality; the association remained after adjustment for abnormal glucose tolerance, but not after adjustment for prevalent cardiovascular disease.” [1]

This is about as ugly as it gets. Low SHBG is correlated with three of the biggest killers of men: heart disease, diabetes and Metabolic Syndrome. A more recent and larger scale study verified the above results but did find that all mortality risk was due to its association with diabetes, lowered HDL and weight gain. So SHBG does not seem causative, but rather often a sign that something else is wrong. By the way, it was “ischemic heart disease” risk that was associated with lowered SHBG in this case, which basically means accelerated arteriosclerosis and decreased blood supply to the heart.

  1. Apnea. I document in my link on Apnea and Testosterone how apnea can affect your baseline testosterone levels by 30 percent or more. Other studies have shown that apnea significantly lowers SHBG as well. [7] So if you have low testosterone and low SHBG, this is something to consider.

  2. Obesity. Because weight gain can lead to loss of insulin sensitivity, low SHBG values are correlated to extra weight.

  3. Inflammation. One study (in women) found that lowered SHBG was associated with elevated CRP (C-Reactive Protein), one of the “gold standard” markers of systemic inflammation that is linked to heart disease, dementia and autoimmune disorders. [8]

  4. Hypothyroidism. One study found that low SHBG was associated with hypothyroidism and could even be reversed by correcting the underlying thyroid issue. [9]

  5. Elevated Triglycerides. Several studies have found that elevated triglycerides, which are a risk factor for both heart disease and erectile dysfunction, are also tied in with low SHBG. [10] Of course, this should be no shock since elevated triglycerides usually come from eating meals with an overly high glycemic load and refined carbohydrates.


#116

50% might be too big of a jump for me. I tend to react strongly to any change.


#117

I stopped taking it a few days ago, around the last time we spoke.


#118

Funny you mention this, I did ask my doctor once about insulin resistance and diabetes. She told me I’m in shape and probably don’t need to worry about that (very scientific, I know). I will ask about this the next time I’m there because I seem to have massive blood sugar issues.

Thanks for the links, the low SHBH being an indicator of underlying disease definitely got my attention.


#119

I still think this Thyroid related. Can’t go into right now, be back later.


#120

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. One of my favorite peeps passed away.

Yeah I got the same thing, you’re not over weight so I’m not worried about it.

If you are hyper your body will metabolize the insulin before it does it’s job.

The symptoms for hypo and hyper are similar.

I think you should definitely get more test done for your thyroid before you start jacking around with your TRT.

@physioLojik says a salvia test is what is actually needed to determine what your thyroid is doing. I don’t know.

I feel for ya because I understand how confusing this is. Maybe the iodine is what made you feel better. I don’t know. I guess if you are a brave soul you could try it again.

When I have an episode, storm whatever you want to call it. My body will catabolize my muscle. It doesn’t give a shit how hard I worked for it. I have to start over. For me it’s a vicious circle, Something happens that triggers it, and then I have anxiety because I have anxiety and that fuels the fire into a conflagration. I literally feel like I am melting. I torched off 10 lbs in 8days with last one. I surely do not want to give you any bad information. I can only tell how it works for me, and I wouldn’t wish that on anybody, (well maybe my first husband) but you get the gist of it.

Did you tell your doctor about ALL your symptoms? The excessive sweating, feeling warm, etc…