T Nation

JPT365’s TRT Log


#61

Given your low SHBG, your estrogen is too high and free estrogen must also be very high. DIM doesn’t lower estrogen. Go on an daily protocol or take an AI. I felt way better mood wise on daily, but couldn’t take the skin burning any longer, now that I’m back on an EOD protocol, estrogen is a little higher.

The every 2 week protocol your estrogen levels were never stable like they are now, before estrogen would peak and then continue falling for over a week and bottom out long before your next injection.


#62

Totally get where you’re coming from with this. I understand why eventually my E2 got out of control. But I never understood how such an atrocious protocol never gave me anxiety or any other mood symptoms but my current one does.


#63

Just take a DIM capsule and find out. Playing mental what if games in your head is probably causing your anxiety to worsen. This stuff is trail and error, process of elimination. Take DIM for a few days see it it helps. If not try an AI for a few days. No change. There you figured out estrogen is not your issue. Then change your frequency give that time see if anything changes. Nothing? Try adjusting your dosage. See, you have to take action and figure these things out otherwise drive yourself nuts mentally freaking out about every little emotion and feeling that passes by. We all go through these negative feelings at some point you have to decide if this is for you and be courageous enough to suck up the side effects with mental strength and get through them. There IS a bright light at the end of the tunnel but it’s a shit covered dark tunnel sometimes.


#64

This is not bad advice man, trust me, I know. These intrusive thoughts are not something I can describe very well. I can suck up anxious, depressive feelings, pain, flu, surgery, death of loved ones, anything of that sort, I’ve had plenty of those in my life already. But these thoughts are something I’ve never dealt with before, I’m avoiding them like crazy.


#65

I can relate somewhat to this. When I decided I wanted to try higher doses that my prescribed dose, about 4 weeks into the higher dosing I was convinced my wife of 11 years (happily married) was cheating in me.

Granted, I felt great physically, was horny as hell, etc… But if she wasn’t giving me the attention or affection I felt like I needed coupled with her playing on her phone, I thought she was doing something suspicious.

It’s almost like I had testosterone induced paranoia/hallucinations…ha.

Around that time, I happen to have bloods scheduled, so I reduced the dose to my prescribed dose for the bloods to come back normal…and as time progressed on the lower dose, those paranoid thoughts vanished and things became more normal again.

After the bloods, I decided to move back up to the other, higher dose because I really felt great. After 5 weeks on the elevated dose, I didn’t have any paranoid thoughts at all… But did suffer a couple of “wet noodle” incidents during sex and some bloating/weight gain… I unscientifically determined I had high E2, so I’ve gone back down in dose again and can report after 4 weeks on lower dose, I’m not having wet noodle incidents.

Like a lot have said here, were manipulating a very important hormone… Strange stuff seems to happen until our bodies are used to what were doing to it.


#66

Good point.


#67

What’s going on fellas? Decided to take a couple weeks away from the site as I was just spinning my wheels.

I’ve been on a new protocol of 10mg test cyp ED for two weeks now. First week was tough with wild swinging of symptoms, anxiety, panic, etc. Had a run of 4 good days then yesterday felt depressed all day for no reason, same this morning. Also been feeling more emotional and libido has decreased, erections tend to become softer during sex. Intrusive thoughts have lessened, although they still come here and there. Anxiety presents itself once in a while but is more controlled at the moment. I’ve also been bloated, even in the morning, although I wonder if I’m just getting fat vs water weight. Defy did want me to increase to 20mg a day but I told them I’d try 10mg first.

Hoping this is just from being only two weeks into a new protocol and not a specific E2 issue. Have follow-up labs in 2 weeks.


#68

10mg EOD is too low, previously you have good numbers at 20mg EOD, did you mean 10mg daily?


#69

Yes, 10mg ED, my bad. Defy was advising 20mg ED or 140mg a week.


#70

At 3 weeks now on ED, 10mg shots. While I acknowledge I’m not in a stable state yet, I definitely feel like shit. Depressed everyday, some worse than others, and fatigued/unmotivated. I don’t have a history of depression (beyond situational, like we all do) so this is really upsetting. Libido comes and goes, penile function is ok when the time comes. Anxiety is definitely at a low.

Thinking at 4 weeks when I follow-up with Defy I’ll take their advice and increase the dose, maybe not to 20mg ED but 15mg. No doubt this will increase anxiety again but it seems that’s just what happens to me with adjustments. Any input is welcome.


#71

you need to give it a bit more time at 10 mg…patience. like this you can know for sure that this protocol is a fail or not. 6-8 weeks.


#72

I’m just getting desperate man. My baby is going to be born in 2 1/2 months and I just want to have enough energy to take care of her. I keep getting confused about these symptoms and what to do about them because they keep changing.

Defy was convinced I would start to feel hypogonadal again at 10mg ED and I do. Trust me, I don’t want to increase the dose for fear of E2 battles but idk what else to do.


#73

oh man. dialing this in sux.

congrats on baby. thats wonderful.

tell defy everything next week. not sure who is helping you there but ask for the dr.


#74

Yes it does! Thanks for the congrats. I do plan on talking to one of the MD’s next week.

To be clear though, testosterone itself cannot cause depression right? It’s mostly E2 or not being on a high enough dose?


#75

I don’t think it’s the actual Injection.

When my t was low along with low e2 I was depressed. Anxiety. I took a few doses of Xanax and it stopped the viscous cycle. This was pre trt when my t and e was low. I haven’t taken since.

I really don’t like the ED protocol no matter how low your shbg is. If we need to inject more than 2x a week there is a problem in your health most likely IMO. Do gels then. It has a shorter 1/2 life.

I don’t think we get that many average guys on trt in these forums. We get the ones with complex issues and we are just shooting in the dark with advice. System Lord a perfect example. It appears he’s still struggling dialing in. Hormones and Endocrinology is complex esp with preexisting issues.

I always suggest a good Endocrinologist even though they may not prescribe trt. They can check for many other issues and diseases. Then a urologist to do his thing and tests things from his viewpoint. Then you can make an informed decision.

Am not saying you to do this as you may have and I don’t remember all the details of your log. This is for everyone.

My biggest problem was not having patience. I took way to many labs managing numbers. Once I stopped and waited a few months I dialed in.
Also the AI I experimented with was a bad decision. It caused a vicious roller coaster. I will never touch that again.


#76

Why do you think this? Genuinely curious, not trying to be confrontational.

Definitely, I did see a urologist and he was stumped with many of my symptoms. He treated me based on my hypogonadal symptoms but it was the common 200mg every two weeks protocol, doomed to fail. Ironically I felt fantastic on this protocol before my E2 got close to 50.

My biggest confounding factor is why I’m having terrible anxiety and now depression on a protocol that should theoretically be working with my low shbg. I know I’m not at 6 weeks yet but I was on 200mg every two weeks and I had none of these symptoms. Never had to dial in, felt immediately fantastic and stayed that way for 7 months. These leads me to believe that something changed when I withdrew from testosterone and stayed off it for 10 months.

I’m trying hard to avoid this. Defy is definitely recommending I take it if I start having verifiable high E2 symptoms.


#77

You made my point with Injection frequency. Cypionate has a 1/2 life of 7-8 days. There are plenty of guys injecting once a week and are fine.

I have yet to read someone who injects cypionate ED or EOD and are doing well. If so speak up. Maybe a different Ester that has a shorter half life.

I think those that need to inject more ( you may not be one of them) and do well are doing to make up for some known or unknown health issue. I.e. liver issue. Am not a doctor. This is my thinking from all the reading I do.

Btw when my estradiol went down to 20 a Couple months ago I couldn’t wait for it to go back up in low 30s. When I had the mind set that I needed e2 at 22 I attributed all symptoms to that being my e2 was higher than 22.
@NH_Watts @jpt365 With all the BS I read in here I was led to believe my Endocrinologist was an idiot wen he told me he does not worry about Estradiol until it gets close to 50-60

It would also be good to try and get a small lab done.

Total t
Free t
Estradiol


#78

What battles are you anxious about? Plenty of people on here on way higher doses with high E2 that dont have any issues with it.


#79

Yeah, I’m definitely not saying I’m 100% sure it’s E2 related, I honestly have no idea what’s going on. My E2 last time wasn’t really high, only 34. I definitely didn’t feel ideal with E2 in the low 20’s.

I do have labs next Thursday. I’ll update then.


#80

When I got to the high 40’s I started having massive panic attacks that lasted hours each. Granted my test was also in the 950’s so maybe it was that ramping up my adrenaline to insane levels.

My urologist at the time said neither the high test or high E2 should be causing these symptoms.