T Nation

JPT365’s TRT Log


#243

Fellas, have any of you used DIM with no success at all? I’m not sure how long it takes to see results and I don’t want to waste precious time. I have a baby on the way and I need to be functioning decently to help out.

I will be adjusting my dose to 8mg ED in an attempt to mitigate these depressive symptoms along with the DIM, only hoping it won’t make things worse (hypogondal symptoms).

Also, has anyone had experience with scrotal cream? Seems the general consensus around here is that injections are superior but this option has been presented to me and I’m exploring everything right now.

I’m using every coping/treatment strategy I’d tell one of my clients (mental health) to use but it feels like I’m just staying afloat with no progress. Sorry to be repetitive, just feeling desperate for relief.


#244

Not directly, but some use them and do just fine. Usually they are guys who hate injections/needles and/or they do not want to go to the doctor for regular injections. They do twice a day applications.


#245

Did you start back on the thyroid meds?


#246

They’ve been pitched to me as having an advantage over injections in terms of aromatization. Is there any truth in this to your knowledge?


#247

I never took any, I took the iodine for a few days and stopped at everyone’s recommendation here. People I speak to are really split on what my bloodwork means. I’ll be getting new bloodwork done at the end of the month.

Reverse t3: 20.7 Range 8-25
T3 free: 3.7 Range 2.3-4.2
T4 free: 1.77 Range .89-1.76 HIGH
TSH: .536 Range .55-4.76. LOW
Thyroid Peroxidase abs: <28.0 Range <60
Thyroglobulin abs: 23.4 Range <60

Defy swears it looks like hypothyroid due to the ratio between reverse T3 and Free T3. I’m not having the ups and downs like you and I had talked about before. Now it’s straight up depression.


#248

I’m a big fan of… if what you’re doing isn’t working, try something else.
If you took the iodine for a few days and then felt like superman a few later, give another shot. If you start feeling worse, stop! Simple as that.

Though we all have the best intentions here… the road to hell was paced with good intentions.


#249

Bro I’m serious when I say scrotul cream is just as good if not better. I haven’t found one person who doesn’t like it. My doc has moved almost all his clients to the cream and he said everyone loves it, and he also made it a point to mention not one of his clients has had issues with e2 since switching to it. That’s why he wanted to move me over. He’s in it himself. Checkout the lifting dermatologist on YouTube. He has a couple of great videos on this.

I spoke to another gentlemen who was on injections for 18 years. He moved to the cream and he says everything’s better from sex life to levels and well being.

I think it’s golden for anyone with e2 issues. Or are over weight. For whatever reason scrotul cream doesn’t convert aggressively to e2. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s because of the region where it’s applied. It’s didturvurd to the body through the scrotum and there fore more naturally? Going through the skin fat or muscle is a different process the body takes to absorb and aromatize? All great questions I hope are answered one day.

Absorption is great as well. I read a couple of studies and articles where they showed cream (scrotul only) is far superior to any gels or topical applications. Similar to injections.

Switch over brother. You’ll probably benefit from it.


#250

Thanks for your support as always! I actually started a multi with the recommended amount of iodine so I figure I’ll just stick with that.


#251

Found a couple answers to my questions.

  1. Injections absorb 100%
  2. Scrotul cream is 75%
  3. Gels are 15.% maybe less.

I found the price 35 to 50$ for a months supply.

:slight_smile:


#252

Did nothing for me. But another member, who is sensitive to such things, crashed his E2 with it.


#253

Good looking out, man! I’m definitely going to look into it!


#254

Alphagunner? He did say it messed him up good.


#255

I have heard that. Doctors I know that use them do not use AIs.


#256

Solid, thank you!


#257

Hey man, do you know if we’re allowed to post links to other forums, like excel male, here? I found a debate between Dr. Saya of Defy and Dr. Nichols on there, it’s really interesting. Basically Nichols loves the scrotal cream application and says it mitigates E2 issues and the need for AIs. However, Saya asks if he’s monitoring patients for elevated DHT because in Saya’s experience DHT raises astronomically with transdermals.


#258

Post away. You’ll find real quick if it’s a no no. I can’t see how it would matter.


#259

I want to see this convo please send it over. Is it always the case with DHEA rising on the cream. What’s Nichols say about it.


#260

Not DHEA, DHT. Here you go:

Starts on that page and continues.


#261

Thanks that wAs epic :rofl:

I like how he said none of his clients have issues in cream. He’s not freaking out every time a leave range goes out of range and instead looks for symptoms. If I had done the same I might be sitting here with a crappy life trying to figure out what’s wrong. I like how Nichols operates.


#262

Update, got new labs drawn after lowering T dose from 10mg to 8mg ED and taking DIM to lower E2. SHBH went up to 17.4 from 12.5. E2 dropped from 45 to 22. TT dropped from 658 to 497. FT dropped from 21.6 to 14.2.

New labs:

Total Test: 497 Range 229-902
Free T: 14.2 Range 4.4-16.8
E2 Sensitive: 22 Range 0-40
SHBG: 17.4 Range 14.55-94.64
T3 free: 3.9 Range 2.8-5.3
Iron Level: 112 Range 49-181
TIBC 355 Range 261 - 462
Ferritin 26 Range 22-322

Previous Labs:

Total Test: 658 Range 229-902
Free T: 21.6 Range 4.4-16.8 HIGH
E2 Sensitive: 45 Range 0-40 HIGH
SHBG: 12.5 Range 14.55-94.64 LOW

I took the DIM for 6 days and dropped my dose to 8mg to mitigate E2, it seems to have worked. I stopped DIM because I noticed I started to pee as much as I used to. There were days when my E2 was higher when I’d drink my usual gallon of water and I’d only pee 3-4 times a day, not normal. Depression has lifted but I feel emotionally blunted, I cant feel much at all. I’ve heard low E2 can cause this but mine is not exceptionally low. Honestly though, I’d rather feel this way than be dealing with anxiety or depression. Morning and nighttime wood are non-existent. Libido is there but my penis is not responding to how I feel. I’m not too worried about it right now. Cognition has improved and so has memory.

Anyone have any idea where I go from here? I’m definitely feeling better than I was but obviously having no arousal or emotions is not going to work long-term. Should I just wait 6-8 weeks since I just lowered my dose to make another change? Also, wondering if anyone had input on my ferritin being on the lower side of the spectrum.

@roscoe88 you asked to see the new labs at 8mg ED, subQ.