T Nation

JPT365’s TRT Log


#203

Guys, what’s everyone’s opinion on E2 levels being inconsequential to how operates when on TRT? A while back @NH_Watts posted a link to a discussion Jay Campbell had on his YouTube channel about the protective element of E2 and that numbers don’t matter as much as how you feel (this seems to be the general concensus rising in the community).

I guess my question would be: how does this apply across different SHBG levels and is SHBG a factor in how one feels at higher E2 levels? The reason I ask is that my E2 isn’t extraordinarily high at 45, but I’m symptomatic. Is this more a result of my T to E ratio rather than E2 itself? I want to increase my test dosage but not at the cost of my sanity if my E2 is just going to skyrocket due to my low SHBG.

What are your experiences with just letting E2 rise to where it may while on treatment?

@physioLojik @charlie12 @highpull @alphagunner @systemlord @enackers


#204

Free e2 can come into play just like free t matters.

You can check free e2 levels in blood lab if you are concerned.

My e2 was in 30s and free e2 was fine. Shbg in mid 20s. I can find lab if you are interested.


#205

Like what?

This is my understanding. High T requires higher E2.

When I was doing E3.5D injections of 90mg (180mg a week) my E2 was up in the 90s (a guess) and I was having a few symptoms. My balls were always pulled up tight and my ejaculate volume significantly diminished. So I to an AI to drop it but ended up crashing it. Eventually I dropped my T dose back down for some doctor’s bloodwork and also dropped my AI. But last July I was @ 62.5mg E3.5D (125mg a week) and no AI and my trough total T was around 900 and E2 was 71 with no symptoms. I was a bit fatter at this time and also drinking alcohol 5-7 days a week, both of which contribute to raising E2.

After my doctors appointments Nov & Jan I have once again raised my dose up to where I feel better. Now slightly leaner and not drinking I also changed to an EOD protocol. I am starting my 4th week on the new protocol (210mg a week) and thus far I have no signs of high E2. Nuts are hanging low and eject is better than ever.


#206

Post away, Charlie. The more info the better.


#207

Depression, erections losing steam and not 100% hard, had extreme irritability but that passed, was retaining water but looked lean last night and this morning, fatigue, no motivation. Also feel like crying to sad songs and can’t watch TV shows I used to watch. Did start DIM yesterday morning but I doubt it works that quickly.

This is my understanding as well. I just don’t know if a higher T dose is going to work out for someone like me with a SHBG of 12. I fear making things much worse for myself than they are and being forced to do the anastrozole dance.

This seems like a decent ratio to me. One time in 2017 I tested at 967 TT and 47 E2. I was having severe panic attacks at that level. For 2-3 days after every injection (200mg every two weeks). It took 7 months for those symptoms to manifest though, I was fine before that, great even. I don’t know what other problem I have that could have caused that. That’s why I’m always asking @physioLojik his opinion. It’s so hard to get a hold of him in his thread due to the large influx of questions he gets there.

I don’t know how else to go about things. Daily 10mg injections saw my E2 level spike from 26 to 45 from weeks 4-8.


#208

BTW this is on 50mg 2x a week


#209

Those levels look great. I envy normal SHBG levels. When mine were at 15 even I was feeling ok at higher T doses. I wonder if I should just adjust frequency to 2-3 times per week to let it come back up or if that would be pointless as well?


#210

I think the message got lost and that most can adjust the protocol to mitigate the symptoms of high estrogen, it started out as the majority of guys are place on AI without ever proving the need for one. Now the preaching is estrogen levels are of no consequence which is absurd because is low estrogen not a concern? As if the door not swings in both directions.

We know estrogen is the emotion hormone, too little and you have flat affect, blunt mood and too much and you’re overly emotional and irritable.

Testosterone is protective, estrogen is protective, too much of either sees the benefits fade quickly and these thresholds will be different for everyone. What ends up being too much for you will differ by large or small. Our bodies have their own optimal ranges for all hormones, isn’t TOT all about “optimizing” all levels and not creating excess?


#211

I would say so, it’s the dialing in to those “optimum” levels that gets most, I’m a testament to that. I’m not going to say I have a monopoly on suffering, I know others have had a hell of a time getting to where they felt great. It just seems to me I passed through that point and don’t know how to get back to it without lowering my T dose and potentially encountering hypogonadal sympyoms.

Is your current regimen still EOD, was it 20mg? As a fellow low-SHBH male, how does an E2 above 40 affect you and what are your thoughts on a dose of 56mg a week or 8mg a day to manage E2?

I was reading a thread on EM and Justin Saya as well as Dr. Keith Nichols were debating AI’s. Low SHBG guys chimed and said how “crazy” SHBH levels close to 50 made them feel, thought that was interesting.


#212

I’m still doing 20mg EOD, erections were much better on daily dosing because estrogen was 26 instead of 43.


#213

How do you feel otherwise at that E2 level and what are your plans, if any, to manage E2? Also, if you don’t mind, how long have you been on this protocol and in what week of this protocol did you get your 43 result?


#214

My plans are to wait out until levels become stable in 5 weeks and see if I can get by without an AI and just lose the weight to lower estrogen. I didn’t feel well with E2 in the 40’s.

Months ago when I was doing 20mg EOD, I was on an AI rollercoaster and just stopped the AI and estrogen landed at 43. Daily dosing was a game changer, but my body reacted badly in other way for reasons unknown and now forced back to 20mg EOD.


#215

Sounds like your pretty close. Recently I had an e2 come back higher than I had ever seen, but I wasn’t having any symptoms really. Had some minor issues with longer finishing times. But that has faded away, and I feel really good. I want to keep my e2 as high as I can without symptoms.

Remind me of your protocol? You could always switch to ED, or something if you have low SHBG. I think people with higher SHBG can tolerate higher e2 levels, broscience though.

I would very slightly lower your dose. Increasing when your e2 is already high is not a good idea.


#216

Did you have a dosage change recently? I thought you were at this dosage/frequency for a while now?


#217

Sup man? My protocol right now is 10mg ED for a total of 70mg a week. I’m thinking of lowering to 56mg a week or 8mg ED. I don’t know if this is too low a dose or if I shouldn’t care about dose and just put my Free-T where it needs to be.


#218

Are you overweight? I don’t think I remember if you have discussed this.

Be careful with DIM. Have you tried warm lemon water, zinc?

You really SHOULDNT care what your dose is, as long as you are getting relief, results, and your free test looks good.


#219

Nope, I’m in pretty good shape. I keep my bodyfat around 14%. I CAN go lower and have been sub-10 before but it wasn’t sustainable and I felt I had no strength/endurance in the gym. Since I’m not stepping on stage, no need.


#220

Didn’t you have a lower dosage where you felt better and upon increasing it went haywire … I need to eventually get my shbg checked.


#221

No, I’ve been on 10mg ED for over 9 weeks now. At week 5 I felt great. Great erections (teenage level), strength, energy, positive mood. By week 7 I started to gradually go downhill. I seemed to have passed through a “sweet spot” even though some disagree a sweet spot doesn’t exist.


#222

What was your total T during each protocol?